EP 17 - Why Don't I Feel Like Myself - Perimenopause, Anxiety & Your Nervous System with Tera Lensegrav-Benson
[00:00:00]
Bree Allred: [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] [00:00:25] Welcome to Healing at Your Core. We're excited to have you join us today. We have [00:00:30] Tera Lensegrav Benson with us. She is a licensed psychologist, and [00:00:35] she specializes a lot of her work with women, and particularly those in the perimenopause and [00:00:40] menopause, post-menopause time frames. Correct?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Exactly.
Bree Allred: Um, so Tera, [00:00:45] tell us a little bit about, um, what made you decide to work [00:00:50] with women primarily?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. Well, I've been a clinical psychologist for a little over [00:00:55] 20 years now, and I trained, um, in, with a specific focus of, on [00:01:00] health psychology. So my entire career has been around, like, women's health topics, [00:01:05] anxiety, OCD, and I feel like I've kinda taken on additional clinical [00:01:10] interests as I've aged into the field- Yeah
as well, and, like, developed interests in parenting, [00:01:15] um, chronic health management, coping, and then perimenopause. [00:01:20] Because when I started going through perimenopause, I realized there was, like, no resource, [00:01:25] resources, understanding, and on the medical or the mental health side. Yeah. So feeling [00:01:30] the symptoms myself and then realizing, like, I should be, as a women's health, mental health [00:01:35] provider, one of the experts in the space on this, and if I wasn't trained in it-
Bree Allred: Know [00:01:40] who else is.
Yeah. I was really trained in it. Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : So I, that's what dro- drove me to really [00:01:45] seek out more, um, education and training, and really reading for myself, and to [00:01:50] be of better service to my patients.
Bree Allred: Yeah. I'm like, feeling the same thing, [00:01:55] and I'm 43, so I'm kind of in that perimenopause timeframe. Mm-hmm. And it's like- We're in [00:02:00] there
we're in there. Yes. But it's very interesting. A lot of women around the same frame, 30s, 40s- Yeah ... [00:02:05] phase. One of the things I hear so much is like, "I just no longer feel like myself."
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yes.
Bree Allred: And [00:02:10] there's so much involved in that, and so many things that we're, we're [00:02:15] changing. Mm-hmm. And we feel these things in our body.
I've heard it described as puberty in reverse- Yes ... too. Yes. [00:02:20] And I love that. Puberty, cougar
Tera Lensegrav Benson : puberty.
Bree Allred: Yes, cougar puberty, right? We're all, like, doing [00:02:25] this differently. When I start thinking about, I'm like, funny enough, it's like I'm raising two [00:02:30] teenagers right now. Mm-hmm. Almost a third. I've got a 12-year-old- Yes
that's, um, two 16 year olds, a boy [00:02:35] and a girl, and it's like, okay, like I'm- Yeah, the raging hormones ... seeing this. Um- And then it's [00:02:40] like mom's raging on the other end. Like, this is really interesting- Yes ... to watch. Yeah. I
Tera Lensegrav Benson : wrote an [00:02:45] entire blog on parenting when you're in perimenopause, parenting adolescents
Bree Allred: who are
Tera Lensegrav Benson : also
Bree Allred: in [00:02:50] puberty.
It's like I'm gonna have to go look it up. It's, uh, it's definitely a thing, because your mo- [00:02:55] everyone's emotions are, like,
Tera Lensegrav Benson : on the edge. You're running [00:03:00] 110 miles an hour, and then occasionally they clash and we're like, "This is not the mom I wanted to be." Yeah. Right? [00:03:05] So that's when I think those, one of those watershed moments when people seek therapy [00:03:10] because they, they realize, like, I'm getting distant from my own values.
I'm not showing up [00:03:15] in the ways I want to for myself and my family. And frankly, like, what's wrong with me? Am I [00:03:20] losing my mind? Yeah. Because they're so irritable-
Bree Allred: Yeah ...
Tera Lensegrav Benson : and easily pushed over the edge by things [00:03:25] they feel like they used to be able to handle. Yep. With ease.
Bree Allred: Yep. Well, and then it's that idea of [00:03:30] like, well, if I can't even manage my own emotions, how in the world am I supposed to teach- Exactly
my teenager to do the same?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : [00:03:35] Yes. Yeah. And if anything, it's made me more empathetic for both my adolescent clients, my [00:03:40] mom clients, myself, and my kids. Like, we're all in this together. We love each other, and if we [00:03:45] come back to that foundation of, like, building healthy attachment, we can get through it. Any [00:03:50] rupture can be repaired if the intention is good there.
And then if we follow it through with [00:03:55] behavior change, which means we have to do our own work- Yeah ... to be more effective as moms in this [00:04:00] phase of life.
Bree Allred: Yeah. So let's talk now specifically more about this kind of perimenopause [00:04:05] timeframe. What would you say that the woman that, you know, is [00:04:10] your kind of avatar, your ideal client for these perimenopause- Um, groups or [00:04:15] doing therapies that you're working with, what would you say, who is this woman?
What does she look [00:04:20] like? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Kind of help... I don't know, if we have a listener that's listening- Mm-hmm ... or someone that's [00:04:25] listening- Yeah ... that they are like, "That is me." Yeah. Do you know what I mean? What would you say is these common things that you may be [00:04:30] hearing people
Tera Lensegrav Benson : say? It's usually, like, I don't feel like myself.
It's oftentimes the [00:04:35] high-achieving woman who's done everything all of her life for everyone else, and she's, like, feeling like [00:04:40] she's approaching a breaking point, or she's already feeling like- ... "I'm past the breaking point." It's the [00:04:45] midlife
Bree Allred: crisis. Something needs to give, right? Like existentially, I'm not okay, and I don't know [00:04:50] why.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Mm-hmm. Right? And perimenopause comes with... There's actually over 100 symptoms [00:04:55] now that are linked to perimenopause, so it's so different for each person, so [00:05:00] navigating that can be so challenging when you have no idea what's wrong. Yeah. So coming to [00:05:05] therapy, seeking medical care, all the different adjunctive treatments and lifestyle [00:05:10] medicine that's available for us now in looking at perimenopause, I think is really the key.
It's not [00:05:15] just one thing. Like, how do we look at the whole picture, get curious about it and then help [00:05:20] find solutions, right? Like the mental health side of it. There are a lot of different things we can [00:05:25] do to work on, um, managing perimenopause, whether it be identity [00:05:30] shifts, anxiety regulation, mood, um, brain [00:05:35] fog, right?
Like, all of these things that we're feeling and going through, we don't have to do it [00:05:40] alone. And there are actually interventions that help make it less suffering. Yeah. [00:05:45] Not that it's not hard, but-
Bree Allred: Yeah ... it
Tera Lensegrav Benson : reduce the suffering.
Bree Allred: Yeah. I love that we're starting [00:05:50] conversations around this now, and I do feel like more than ever, we as women need a village.
[00:05:55] Yeah, absolutely. I, I feel like our villages are- Yes ... starting maybe to disintegrate a little bit. Yeah. And I think we [00:06:00] as women in these time frames maybe feel that more than-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : 100% ...
Bree Allred: more than we have in the [00:06:05] past.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. Some of the best, um, interventions for mental health involve social [00:06:10] connection, right? Like, whether that be in the therapy room, in group therapy, or with friends, right?
[00:06:15] Like finding people that we feel, like, not judged by. Mm-hmm. That we can go on a walk [00:06:20] with and just spill our souls to and actually really get it. And I think that's [00:06:25] also, like, a myth in our culture sometimes is that we have to have it all together. Yeah. And we [00:06:30] can't, like, show our vulnerability or that we fear judgment, [00:06:35] but we're all going through the same things, and if you're just brave enough to voice it, a [00:06:40] dozen or more people will stand up and say, "Yeah, I feel that, too.
I've been struggling the same
Bree Allred: way." Oh my gosh, you [00:06:45] too? Yes. Yeah, yeah. A different Me Too movement. Yes. Yeah. Do you feel [00:06:50] like anxiety can actually appear for the first time- Yeah ... during perimenopause?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : I feel it- [00:06:55] And my mind in particular got worse. It took on a different quality, [00:07:00] and I've seen it dozens of times
Bree Allred: So where it's like you never struggled really with it before-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah
and [00:07:05] all of a sudden it's like, wow. It's a new, so either a worsening of, uh, anxiety that was, like, pretty [00:07:10] well under control or dealt with, felt like they had coping tools- Yeah ... to manage [00:07:15] it. And then also there's kind of ano- another category where it's like the perfect storm [00:07:20] of, like, the, all of the hormonal changes resu- and result in sleep disturbance that [00:07:25] often,
Bree Allred: you know,
Tera Lensegrav Benson : increase.
And very specific anxieties, like I've heard a lot of driving [00:07:30] anxiety and anxiety about doing things that they used to do, [00:07:35] honestly, with ease or enjoy doing. Like, I suddenly don't wanna go [00:07:40] hiking and I'm afraid of the edge, right? Like, and it's, you know, linked to your fight or flight [00:07:45] system, our survival network.
So when we're, like, pushed into anxiety, [00:07:50] regardless of the cause, it's adaptive to a point, right? So we wanna keep ourselves [00:07:55] safe to, to stay alive. Humans wouldn't exist if we didn't have anxiety, right? Yeah, yeah. We're wired for [00:08:00] survival, not for happiness. So when anxiety kind of comes, like, when your hormones [00:08:05] are changing and you have that, like, first wave of cortisol that maybe is new to [00:08:10] you, right?
Like, you, someone who hasn't struggled with anxiety, you're not losing your mind. [00:08:15] Hormones are involved, psychology's involved, and working with both can be the solution. [00:08:20]
Bree Allred: Yeah. So that holistic, it's like it takes mind, men, body. It does.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. There, there's no [00:08:25] separation. Yeah. Right? Which is exactly why I'm interested in health psychology, right?
Yes. Working with both [00:08:30] together.
Bree Allred: Yeah. Because it's these changes in our biology-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Mm-hmm ...
Bree Allred: and chemistry, I guess you could say, [00:08:35] right? Yeah, exactly.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Just
Bree Allred: our bodies- Yes ... that are then affecting what's happening in the [00:08:40] brain, mind-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Exactly.
Bree Allred: Yeah ... which then feeds back to our bodies, and we cycle like this.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Exactly.
It's, it's a [00:08:45] n- never-ending loop. And when anxiety's involved, whether your body starts the [00:08:50] party or your mind does,
Bree Allred: like, that's whoever starts the party- It's the same thing ... and we keep going. And it [00:08:55] can snowball pretty fast. Yeah. When would you say that this becomes [00:09:00] something that we really need help with, right?
When it's like people are [00:09:05] managing okay versus when they're not, when should they seek help outside of what they can do [00:09:10] on their own?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : You know what? I think everyone, like half of the population, goes through perimenopause and menopause.
Bree Allred: Mm-hmm.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : [00:09:15] Why shouldn't we have good, effective healthcare, mind and body, for everyone?
Bree Allred: [00:09:20] Yeah. I don't think it should be, um, something that's pushed aside or thought [00:09:25] of as not
Tera Lensegrav Benson : a serious transition- Mm-hmm ... because it really is. Like, when you think of the big [00:09:30] hormone bursts in a woman's life, like puberty, pregnancies if they have them, [00:09:35] then we have perimenopause, and honestly, up until the past decade, it's kind of been ignored-
Bree Allred: [00:09:40] Yeah
Tera Lensegrav Benson : as something to address, but why should it be, right? Like, I, I don't think you have to be [00:09:45] suffering tremendously to seek help. Like, why not think of it [00:09:50] preventatively? Like, can I do something to ease this transition to make it easier for me? [00:09:55] And I think, like, that's one of my missions in developing more, um, awareness in the mental [00:10:00] health space around perimenopause is that you don't have to suffer in silence.
Bree Allred: Mm-hmm.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And it doesn't have [00:10:05] to be that bad. You don't have to be sick enough to get care. It is a major [00:10:10] identity and transformation time in a woman's life. Why shouldn't she get- [00:10:15] help to talk through that, work through it, both on the medical and mental health [00:10:20] side. And, you know, I'm a proponent of physical therapy-
and massage as well. Yeah. Like, I've been in, [00:10:25] in your clinic for those things as also. So I think, like, that mind-body health, it [00:10:30] should be like how we learn to take care of our bodies, like brushing our teeth. We need to learn [00:10:35] how to take care of our mental health, too.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : So we don't have these big fall, [00:10:40] these falls off the cliff that are kind of unnecessary if you know what's coming, right?
Like, educating [00:10:45] younger women, um, this is what you have to look forward to. Be on the [00:10:50] lookout for these symptoms. If you have these things that you notice, if you're not sleeping, if you're [00:10:55] irritable, if you're suddenly more anxious- Yeah ... if your mood dips, get help sooner [00:11:00] rather than later. I love working with people before they're at that crisis point, right?
Yeah. So maybe we could [00:11:05] prevent it and all of the fallout that can come from actually being in crisis.
Bree Allred: Yeah. [00:11:10] Can you imagine having the right tools in the toolbox, right? Yes. That you're like, "I know what I [00:11:15] need," and you pull it out instead of, like, "I'm, I don't know what I need."
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. "
Bree Allred: I'm searching for [00:11:20] it."
Mm-hmm. And you're delayed at
Tera Lensegrav Benson : best. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, and all the suffering that comes, like, [00:11:25] like, from a relationship, career, mental health, physical health [00:11:30] standpoint that's unnecessary.
Bree Allred: Yeah. So having that tool in your toolbox- Mm-hmm ... ahead of [00:11:35] time can be- Exactly ... super helpful. So maybe- Yeah ... and it's, this is where [00:11:40] we could be a proponent of, like, lifelong therapy, right?
Yeah. Yes. Of like- I think- ... let's get tools as soon as we're, [00:11:45] like- There's that ... struggling with something
Tera Lensegrav Benson : or before There's a need at all of our lives where we can benefit from it. It doesn't have to [00:11:50] be long-term, but- Yeah ... who can't, can't look back across their lifespan [00:11:55] if you've lived life at all, right?
Like- Yeah ... we all have really hard moments sometimes.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And why [00:12:00] not get the support to, to maybe ease that transition for you?
Bree Allred: So let's [00:12:05] talk, you said this really seems to be related to the high-achieving woman that's doing, she's had [00:12:10] everything together. Yes. She's got these perfect, beautiful children.
Their hair is [00:12:15] always done. Their outfits always match. I don't, this is just, right? Hypothetical woman. We're creating a, yes, we're creating a [00:12:20] hypothetical woman here. But, um- And she's starting to run out of gas. Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? She's [00:12:25] hitting- Yes ... this point of, I would say, do you know what I mean, late 30s, early 40s.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. [00:12:30]
Bree Allred: Maybe a little bit later for some, maybe a little bit earlier for some. Yeah. But where... [00:12:35] What do you tell this woman?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Well, she, her body's probably been whispering, and then [00:12:40] talking, and then yelling at her, and now she's at the breaking point of like, "I, my [00:12:45] demand in my life, uh, exceeds my reserves in the tank."
Mm-hmm. "Like, I can't [00:12:50] over-function anymore." So it's typically someone who has been over-functioning, and then they [00:12:55] approach a pl- a place of burnout, right? Where they can't push through and continue to [00:13:00] perform. And I would tell her, like, "You're, you're more than what you do," right? Like, [00:13:05] things change. Life seasons change.
Yeah. Your needs are gonna change, and [00:13:10] your needs matter, right? Like, you can't pour from an empty vessel. So I [00:13:15] would say take care of yourself, and it's gonna look different for every woman, but it [00:13:20] doesn't mean you're selfish if you prioritize your own health, mind, and body.
Bree Allred: [00:13:25] Yeah. And let's talk a little bit about some of the changes that may be happening in their body.
Mm-hmm. Right? Yes. Let's talk [00:13:30] just a little bit about, like, okay, this high-achieving woman's been there- Yeah ... and now she's like, "Well, I'm [00:13:35] all of a sudden fatigued." Yeah. "And I'm getting the same amount of rest. My diet really hasn't changed. I'm still [00:13:40] exercising." Mm-hmm. "I'm still do- doing all the things."
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah.
Bree Allred: But all of a sudden [00:13:45] now maybe she can't fall asleep at night.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yes.
Bree Allred: She's, like, wired but tired. Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : [00:13:50] Yes.
Bree Allred: She's struggling to feel like she got restful sleep in the morning. [00:13:55] Mm-hmm. And that takes one little drop out of that vessel, right? That she doesn't have to give to somebody [00:14:00] else. Um- Or her whole
Tera Lensegrav Benson : future, honestly.
Bree Allred: Yeah. 'Cause
Tera Lensegrav Benson : sleep is everything, right? Like- Yeah.
Bree Allred: That's so true.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : [00:14:05] Yeah.
Bree Allred: So I'm like, sleep is a common theme that women are struggling with. Yes. How do you feel that that sleep [00:14:10] deprivation, and it affects-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah,
Bree Allred: so there's sort of this- ... the mind and body? Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Like, it's, it's [00:14:15] intense, right? The cortisol insomnia loop gets [00:14:20] started, and then it's really hard to sort of stop.
And it, honestly, it, it's easy to panic, [00:14:25] right? Mm-hmm. Like, I have so much to do. I have all these expectations on [00:14:30] myself and from other people that I don't want to disappoint happening tomorrow. It's [00:14:35] 3:00 in the morning, and, uh, I'm awake, and what do I do, right? So any [00:14:40] time we wake up and we panic, it's typically those early morning [00:14:45] awakenings may be prompted by, like, premature cortisol.
Bree Allred: Mm-hmm.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : So it's what we work on [00:14:50] throughout the rest of the day- ... to help lower that cortisol level and prevent [00:14:55] the spike. 'Cause estrogen and cortisol sort of work together, so when your estrogen is dropping, and [00:15:00] really it's the- What, it's not just dropping, it's like-
Bree Allred: All over
Tera Lensegrav Benson : the place ...
Bree Allred: all
Tera Lensegrav Benson : over the [00:15:05] map
Bree Allred: with progesterone.
I've used an example, people laugh, but I'm like, I've used the example of like a [00:15:10] spaceship in space, do you know, where it does the little psh, psh, psh, psh? And so like our hormones kind [00:15:15] of do that. Yeah. It's like, "Oh, I'm gonna give you a dose of estrogen right now." Yeah, I'm gonna give you one right now. Yep, and then I'll give you some [00:15:20] progesterone, and then maybe we're gonna give you both, and then maybe we're not gonna give you any for a minute.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Right. Right. So you need that [00:15:25] progesterone for the calm hormones. Mm-hmm. Y- you know, GABA calms things down at night to get [00:15:30] good rest. And even women who aren't having those middle of the night awakenings, so [00:15:35] you know, hot flashes, night sweats, our anxiety can wake us up early, right? [00:15:40] The cortisol bump that usually happens, like within an hour or two of awakening that like rises [00:15:45] us up for the day so we can get up and do what we need to do.
But if it... as it's [00:15:50] dysregulated, those things are happening at the wrong times, essentially. Yeah. So that 3:00 AM wake up [00:15:55] is like a classic perimenopause symptom. So I work a lot with, like, okay, [00:16:00] what do we do about it? Like, changing our relationship to sleep and not getting... Not making [00:16:05] ourselves more anxious when we're having that 3:00 AM wake, awakening.
It's really [00:16:10] unpleasant, but, like, changing your relationship with sleep can [00:16:15] really help.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : I've kinda turned down the heat in the middle of the night, and I have a lot of [00:16:20] strategies. I, like, tailor them to the client and what they seem to resonate the most with. But thinking [00:16:25] of, like, get up, read something boring, like a manual for your refrigerator.[00:16:30]
And while you're tired. Yeah. Nothing emotionally intense. Mm-hmm. But, like, don't make [00:16:35] yourself... Like, don't torture yourself just laying in bed for hours, right?
Bree Allred: So- You never know how long [00:16:40] a night is until you count
Tera Lensegrav Benson : sheep. Exactly. Exactly, and it's kind of like new [00:16:45] motherhood in a way, right? Mm-hmm. Like, similar hormonal fluctuations and changes in [00:16:50] pregnancy as well.
So i- interestingly, like, all these core times in our [00:16:55] lives, right, like sleep is so crucial for us to wake up refreshed and ready to take on the [00:17:00] day. Because that's when our brain and body, like when our muscle... When we do our rest and [00:17:05] repair, right? Like, we critically need good quality sleep, not [00:17:10] just enough sl- like seven to nine hours is the recommended amount, but you need [00:17:15] that deep restorative sleep.
And when you wake up, I call it the [00:17:20] anxiety hangover, you know you didn't get enough of that.
Bree Allred: Yeah. Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Right? So, like, it, [00:17:25] it kind of feeds that loop, and then you wake up exhausted. That the crushing fatigue is a [00:17:30] term I've heard and felt- Yeah ... in this perimenopause transition, which is so new, right? Like, [00:17:35] you feel like that a- mid-afternoon slump where it's like, "I can't function, I can't [00:17:40] think, I can't focus.
Um, I can barely, like, keep it [00:17:45] together- Yes ... much less do the rest of the day." Yeah. And that's just part of that, like, sleep [00:17:50] disruption cycle. And then if it's chronic, right, like it really does impact brain [00:17:55] health. Mm-hmm. Um, increases your risk of heart disease, Alzheimer's disease, right? Yeah. Like, [00:18:00] it's super important to address, so that's one of the things that I work on, um, in [00:18:05] therapy with biofeedback, if it's indicated, to try to like learn [00:18:10] how to switch into that parasympathetic nervous system, you know, [00:18:15] lower your arousal, especially obviously when you're awake- Yeah
so you're [00:18:20] less keyed up at night. And then obviously the nighttime ritual's important, too. But 3:00 [00:18:25] AM wake-ups will happen in perimenopause, so how we deal with them, I think, is more critical than [00:18:30] being mad that they happened. Right. It's like if we can just [00:18:35] expect and accept a little
Bree Allred: bit- Yeah, exactly
and work our way
Tera Lensegrav Benson : through it. Instead of I'm awake, and then you're [00:18:40] running, like you- your mind will want to run to your to-do list instantly. Yeah Or like a [00:18:45] random conversation where you felt like you were too boisterous in 2002, right? [00:18:50] Like, our
Bree Allred: brains are amazing at creating. Kind of like, and why did you decide to bring that [00:18:55] up now?
Yeah. Yeah, so
Tera Lensegrav Benson : it's easy for your mind to race when you have those [00:19:00] middle of the night wakeups too.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And then looking at, like, is there anything medically that we can [00:19:05] do as well to help that thermal regulation too? Because those early [00:19:10] morning awakenings, we're often in REM sleep, so it's a lighter state.
Mm-hmm. So we're more likely to wake up with a night [00:19:15] sweat or a hot flash too. So it's kind of working the really holistically [00:19:20] on sleep quality really. Yeah. Not just quantity, but quality.
Bree Allred: [00:19:25] interesting enough, and that we can affect that- Oh, my
Tera Lensegrav Benson : gosh.
Bree Allred: Absolutely ... which is behaviors and habits and- Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Physical [00:19:30] activity, nutrition, good sunlight in the morning, right? Limiting screen time at night in [00:19:35] particular, 'cause again, it's the circadian rhythm. Mm. There's something about bright light, like, oh, [00:19:40] it's daytime rather than it's time to wind down towards restful sleep.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And really, [00:19:45] it's kind of annoying, especially for-
high achieving type A folks to, like, have [00:19:50] to slow down. It's like, I'm going until I hit the pillow. Exactly. And most folks in [00:19:55] that category, right, like, they would go until they hit the pillow and they're out. So a lot of times I'm [00:20:00] hearing, like, "I was a great sleeper my whole life and I've never really had to learn how to sleep."
So it's a new [00:20:05] skill set to develop.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : But absolutely possible.
Bree Allred: Yeah. Let's talk another [00:20:10] symptom is kind of that brain fog. Mm-hmm. And we know that sleep quality is- Yes ... likely a component of that, but [00:20:15] they're word finding- Mm-hmm ... and just like, "I feel like I'm doing, just- Yes ... [00:20:20] cannot remember things or recall things or keep things straight."
Mm-hmm. [00:20:25] Schedules. Um-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah ...
Bree Allred: I'm constantly checking the calendar because it's like, ah, I can't [00:20:30] remember what's coming next, or we just had this conversation last night. Why can't I remember all of these [00:20:35] things?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah.
Bree Allred: What, what do you say to the woman struggling with those symptoms? We usually work with the fear around [00:20:40] it,
Tera Lensegrav Benson : that this is a remodeling time for your brain.
It's not gonna always be like this, [00:20:45] and it doesn't mean you're losing your capacity or your intellect, or you have early onset, [00:20:50] uh, dementia. Uh-huh. Right? So working with, okay, how do I cope with it, what strategies do I need [00:20:55] right now, and how can I... Really, sleep quality is the biggest- The biggest one
[00:21:00] contributor-
Bree Allred: Trust that ... to brain fog. So, like, always paying attention to
Tera Lensegrav Benson : sleep too. Mm-hmm. [00:21:05] So we can work on strategies for now and sleep quality.
Bree Allred: So [00:21:10] back to our high achieving woman. Do you know what I mean? She's looking at everybody else that she's been [00:21:15] around, also other high achieving women- Mm ... that she's interacted with.
They're all fine.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. [00:21:20]
Bree Allred: Why is she not fine? Well- Why do they all look fine? They look fine- Why am I not fine? ...
Tera Lensegrav Benson : but I [00:21:25] would beg to differ with the reality that they are, because again, going back to that community idea, like, if [00:21:30] anybody was willing to be vulnerable, to share how much they're struggling- [00:21:35] A lot of other women would raise
Bree Allred: their hands.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah, exactly. Do it too. And I think of, like, the cute little ducks [00:21:40] serenely swimming across the pond. She looks, like, beautiful and put together, and the [00:21:45] water's rolling off her back, and under the surface her little feet are just paddling, [00:21:50] and paddling, and paddling, and paddling. And I think, like, again, it, it, perimenopause is one of those times when [00:21:55] you look at, like, diminishing re- reserves or demands exceeding [00:22:00] capacity, and I think also, like, the burnout cycle that can happen with that often fuels [00:22:05] depression- Yeah
and low mood. And women are really good at masking that and putting on a [00:22:10] happy face even when they don't feel like it.
Bree Allred: Mm-hmm.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : But perimenopause is the [00:22:15] leading, the, the decade around perimenopause. So happiness has kind of a U-shaped curve. [00:22:20] The least happy point is down here at 47 years of age. [00:22:25] Happens to be around the time menopause, being average age of [00:22:30] 51.
Man, they sure go together, right? Yeah. So I think, like, knowing that the suicide risk, as a [00:22:35] healthcare provider and someone who loves, anyone who loves women needs to know this, that the [00:22:40] greatest risk of suicide is within that sort of decade around that age of 47, [00:22:45] and then happiness comes back up, right?
Like, knowing it's a season rather [00:22:50] than forever, and I think the same with anxiety too. When you feel suddenly anxious, it's [00:22:55] really easy to be like, "Am I an anxious person? Is this the new me? What's [00:23:00] wrong with me? I don't even know who I am," right? Yeah. And the same with depression too, [00:23:05] and irritability, rage goes with depression and anxiety- [00:23:10]
Bree Allred: Yeah
Tera Lensegrav Benson : as well. So, like, feeling like you're on edge or snapping at people you love is [00:23:15] often, like, a really common symptom of perimenopause and also something [00:23:20] that we can work on treating.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Right.
Bree Allred: And interesting enough, I do [00:23:25] feel that these hit at a high point for a lot of women in motherhood as well.
Mm-hmm. Right? There's a lot of demands [00:23:30] at that- Yes. Yes ... at this time as well.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : I just dropped a kid off for her freshman year of [00:23:35] college, and I was seeing the sea of women who were- ... likely also perimenopausal. [00:23:40] Tears and just, like, ha- feeling so much for them, right? Mm-hmm. Like, we're [00:23:45] caregiving, and oftentimes a sandwich generation too.
Like, we're caregiving our own children still, as [00:23:50] well as working on helping aging parents So there is a ton of [00:23:55] pressure at this age- Yeah ... right? And, and we're there for everyone else, but who's there for us?
Bree Allred: [00:24:00] Yeah. And depression, what kind of tools- Mm ... do you mean would... And, like, if you had to [00:24:05] pick one tool for, like, this depression, anxiety.
Yeah. I know that's a hard question. Yes. Yeah. But if you had [00:24:10] to say, like, one or two, doesn't it make maybe tools that you would teach- Yeah ... that could help-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yes ...
Bree Allred: in this space?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : [00:24:15] Absolutely. So you think of, like, the, the low-hanging fruit, so to speak. Right. I, like, I would say [00:24:20] the, honestly the biggest bang for its buck, and it's not therapy, [00:24:25] is physical activity.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And then of course I'm a proponent of therapy, right? Yes. But [00:24:30] oftentimes people are so, like, worked up from an anxiety standpoint and fatigued, [00:24:35] or depressed and fatigued, or both, that they're like, "I can't even [00:24:40] move," right? So talk therapy's really helpful to get them over the hump of, like, [00:24:45] feeling like they can't get off the couch or they're barely surviving, right?
Like, they're, they look [00:24:50] like they're functioning, but they're falling apart inside. Yeah. So again, like, daily movement [00:24:55] is so helpful, that the benefits are profound for mental health- Yes ... and [00:25:00] obviously physical too. You're preaching to the choir here, but yes. Yes. Yeah. We love physical movement. If I didn't [00:25:05] exercise, I would not be nearly as functional as I
Bree Allred: am.
Yeah. So maybe just [00:25:10] encouraging that it's like find some movement that you love.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yes, exactly. And- I always say one minute is better than [00:25:15] no minute ...
Bree Allred: yeah. Something's always better than nothing. Exactly, yeah. That's one of my mantras. And then I also say the majority [00:25:20] of the time wins, so.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yes.
Bree Allred: Do it even if you can't do it every day, y- but if you're getting [00:25:25] some consistency, I'm like, "Four days wins."
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And the hardest part is showing up. Yeah. Right? Like, getting to [00:25:30] whatever the workout is or the activity, like, kind of getting yourself to do it- [00:25:35] Yeah ... is the hardest part, and then you're like, "Oh, I'm moving. I feel better."
Bree Allred: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, [00:25:40] okay, and that motivates you to keep going. And then we talk about like
Tera Lensegrav Benson : what are the underpinnings of your depression and anxiety?
Because they have enough. [00:25:45] It also helps with the energy component too. Yeah. And it helps with sleep. Yeah. Right? So it's just so [00:25:50] beneficial across the board.
Bree Allred: Yep. So find a therapist that you connect [00:25:55] with.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Exactly.
Bree Allred: And- Yeah ... getting some daily movement-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yes ...
Bree Allred: that you enjoy. [00:26:00] Yeah. Hopefully we can make it that, right?
Yes. Maybe if it's not even enjoyable, just move. Right. Get [00:26:05] outside and
Tera Lensegrav Benson : walk. Yeah, I think that's a place to start, right? And then it's like that growing edge of finding.
Bree Allred: Yeah. '[00:26:10]
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Cause I think oftentimes we get in our heads about, like, being as fit or as [00:26:15] active as we once were, and, like, kind of, that's kind of a trap, right?
Like, our bodies are [00:26:20] different. That's okay, and we need different movement at this phase of life too. Yeah. We don't wanna add to the [00:26:25] cortisol spike by just running ourselves into the ground.
Bree Allred: Yep. Yep. Be kind to your body.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : [00:26:30] Mm-hmm.
Bree Allred: And we do, and, like, from physical standpoint, we do think weights are helpful at this point.
Yes. [00:26:35] But you don't have to have a workout that's killing you all the time. I love weights. That you can't go sit on the toilet [00:26:40] afterwards. Yes. But it's like adding some weights might be really helpful
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yes. I'm [00:26:45] a big proponent in that weight, weight
Bree Allred: training And weights can actually be very kind to your body.
You're not [00:26:50] leaving the workout completely-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Drained.
Bree Allred: Yeah ... sweaty and wasted and gassed. Yeah. A lot of [00:26:55] times it's like, "No, I've actually, I did-" Yeah ... 30 minutes of weightlifting and-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yes ...
Bree Allred: I feel [00:27:00] energized afterwards."
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And after I learned about sort of the cortisol bump that comes with more of the high intensity stuff that [00:27:05] I, you know, really used to love- Mm-hmm
and kind of let myself do once in a while still- Yeah ... 'cause it's [00:27:10] fun, and shifted to weight training, and I do feel, like, much more grounded. [00:27:15]
Bree Allred: Mm-hmm.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And, um, stronger and I'm, I feel like I'm building that [00:27:20] health for the next decades of my life. Yeah. 'Cause I don't wanna be a burden on my kids.
Bree Allred: Yeah. [00:27:25] So I'm like, there is some longevity, but start somewhere-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Mm-hmm
Bree Allred: I think is a really great piece of advice. [00:27:30] Yeah. Like, start somewhere, find some movement that seems doable- Yeah ... that you enjoy, and continue. [00:27:35]
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And health psychology is all about, like, working with health behavior change-
Bree Allred: Yeah ...
Tera Lensegrav Benson : and [00:27:40] lifestyle factors too. Yeah.
Bree Allred: Let's talk about the nervous system a little bit more.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. [00:27:45]
Bree Allred: And how it really struggles to separate between the mental and the physical. [00:27:50]
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Mm-hmm. Right, like it's that bidirectional relationship between mind and body [00:27:55] that, you know, fight or flight is that nervous system response to threat. [00:28:00] However- Most of our lives in this day and age are not lived in, like, [00:28:05] legitimate threatening circumstances.
Yeah But our nervous system doesn't know the difference, right? Like- [00:28:10] We're not gonna die from making a phone call- Exactly ... which sometimes I'm like, "I
Bree Allred: hate
Tera Lensegrav Benson : talking
Bree Allred: on the phone." I know, [00:28:15] like, yeah. Yes. Right? Like, back in the day, you ran from the tiger, got away, and that [00:28:20] stress, we're okay, right?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Mm-hmm. Like, the stress loop got closed.
But now the metaphoric [00:28:25] tigers are everywhere. They're in our phone, they're in our workplace, they're in those conflictual [00:28:30] relationships. They're in, like... feel kind of omnipresent because we're so plugged in all the [00:28:35] time, and everything kind of feels like a crisis- Yeah ... at a point. So your nervous [00:28:40] system kind of gets wired to be always on edge, always in fight or flight, [00:28:45] and learning how to turn on rest and digest, the parasympathetic.
[00:28:50] Sympathetic comes to your aid- Uh-huh ... when you're, like, under a threat legitimately, even if it's [00:28:55] not something that we would consider a legitimate threat. Parasympathetic is the [00:29:00] balancing branch, right? So we wanna be able to turn on that, and it is a skill to develop. [00:29:05] It's just like learning to ride a bike.
I can learn how to develop that switch [00:29:10] between sympathetic and parasympathetic, and really, like, health, physical and [00:29:15] mental, is about the capacity to be flexible, to shift into high gear when you need it, [00:29:20] and to quickly shift back into rest and digest when you don't. So some of the tools that we [00:29:25] use, you know, are mindfulness training, different types of physical activity, bio and [00:29:30] neurofeedback are really great options too, where you get actual [00:29:35] data.
Bree Allred: Mm-hmm.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And even, like, our Apple Watches are tracking our heart rate variability right now, right? Like, [00:29:40] that's something we can work on and actually see an actionable change, which I [00:29:45] like the data. Yeah. It's really nice to know, like, I am making progress. Yeah. And I work with [00:29:50] clients, you know, with HRV, heart rate variability, and other biofeedback in conjunction with [00:29:55] therapy to really understand, like, you think you're relaxed, but your shoulders are, like, up here, [00:30:00] and you don't even know how- Yes
anxious you are. So I think it's really good to, like, uh, [00:30:05] teach us, gather insight about, like, where are we actually at, even though we [00:30:10] think we're in one spot. The data might tell us differently, and then it gives us, [00:30:15] like, uh, something to work on, work towards too.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : So it feels like a [00:30:20] concrete outcome to our efforts.
Bree Allred: Yeah. Yeah. That's very tangible. Mm-hmm. Something [00:30:25] you can see- Yeah ... rather than this, like, "Well, am I doing better mentally? I don't know." Right.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Right? Like, I'll [00:30:30] self-report on this
Bree Allred: scale- Yes. Yeah ... that it feels like I am, but I really have no joy. Still got a few 50. Yeah. Yeah. [00:30:35] So let's tell people that aren't familiar- Yeah
maybe with the neurofeedback or the biofeedback. Mm-hmm. [00:30:40] Like, what is it? What does it entail?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. So biofeedback is simply, like, [00:30:45] um, like your pulse is a measure of biofeedback. So when you're doing something to [00:30:50] try to train it, like heart rate variability training, gives you a sense of the coherence [00:30:55] between your heart rate and your respirations.
When I first started learning about it, I'm like, [00:31:00] "Aren't they just the same thing?" They're really not. Yeah. And it's training that [00:31:05] ability le- that I just described to come back from a moment of threat to rest and digest. [00:31:10] So building that, um, essentially arousal regulation, and [00:31:15] learning what does it feel like when I'm in high coherence- Mm-hmm
versus low, and can [00:31:20] I pay more attention to those subtle cues from my body before it's screaming at me? I'm on [00:31:25] the edge, right? Yeah. So building in, building those skills really, and, and we [00:31:30] do it with guided training techniques. A lot of the tools that I use have, like, [00:31:35] apps that have guided meditations and things built in to teach you the technique, and it's [00:31:40] really about, like, connecting to your body's experience and making that, that [00:31:45] more...
Like, you, you guys do the mind-muscle connection, right? Yeah. Like, it's, it's making that [00:31:50] more obvious, because so often we're, like, floating through life, running, running, running, right? [00:31:55] And we're really disconnected from our bodies.
Bree Allred: We're never paying attention- Yeah ... to actually the signals that it's [00:32:00] sending
Tera Lensegrav Benson : us.
Exactly. So much wisdom, emotional depth, and, and, like, clarity of our [00:32:05] life, like our gut level reactions. There's so many neurotransmitters in our gut and our heart to [00:32:10] give us guidance when we feel like we're flailing if we just tune into it, but we do have to [00:32:15] slow down and learn how to do it. But once you do, it's kind of intuitive, right?
Like- [00:32:20] Yeah ... I've been training over 10 years with, um, different biofeedback [00:32:25] modalities, and it just, it feels really natural to do it. Like, I notice when I'm holding my breath [00:32:30] now, and I'm, "Okay, I'm gonna do that heart- Yeah ... focus breathing, and [00:32:35] bring coherence up," right? Like, it, it just becomes something you can do on the fly really [00:32:40] easily- Mm-hmm
with
Bree Allred: practice. Yeah. And I would say biofeedback, 'cause we can use it in- Mm-hmm ... physical therapy as well- Yes ... [00:32:45] where we'll put sensors on the muscles and- Yeah ... kind of give people, like, here's when it's activated- The EMG ... here's when it's [00:32:50] relaxed, and we can give people a new awareness oftentimes of things being held
Tera Lensegrav Benson : tense.
[00:32:55] Absolutely,
Bree Allred: yes. Um, we see this a lot with a lot of our pain- Mm ... clients [00:33:00] as well, that their muscles will be-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yes ...
Bree Allred: in a guard and protect- Guarding, yes ... and a, a [00:33:05] tensed position- Right ... for more of the time.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And those muscles are telling their mind-
Bree Allred: Yeah ...
Tera Lensegrav Benson : there's something to be [00:33:10] scared of. Yes. And the mind is scanning for like, "What am I scared of?"
And they, it will assign meaning to very [00:33:15] random things.
Bree Allred: Yes.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Which is part of why the nuance of anxiety Mm-hmm ... gets going. It's like- Yeah ... "I'm [00:33:20] anxious about something. I've gotta figure it out," right?
Bree Allred: Yeah. It's like they're, they're feeding each other- [00:33:25] Yes ... in these cycles, just like you talked about before.
But I think it's just biofeedback we really say is kind of [00:33:30] bringing something inside of you to an external- Conscious awareness ... or [00:33:35] conscious awareness, like us, we're using the EMG- Mm-hmm ... where it's bringing the muscle readings onto a screen [00:33:40] and giving you a graph of kind of what's happening. Yeah. And then you're like, "Oh," and then you [00:33:45] see it change and you're like, "Oh, I see it."
It's coming back. And then all of a sudden it's like [00:33:50] now I'm connecting to what I feel in my body based on what I'm seeing outside of myself [00:33:55] almost. Mm-hmm. Like, we almost have to bring that, like-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah ...
Bree Allred: here's a screen that's showing you what's happening- Yes ... [00:34:00] happening in your body. Now can you associate generally what you feel in your body
Tera Lensegrav Benson : with what you're [00:34:05] seeing?
With that connection.
Bree Allred: Yes.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. Yes.
Bree Allred: So
Tera Lensegrav Benson : that's- I love that you guys do that
Bree Allred: Oh my, so similar kind of ideas. Like [00:34:10] you may be using heart rate, you may be using- Yeah, or skin
Tera Lensegrav Benson : temperature, skin conductance. I do have EMG equipment- [00:34:15] Uh-huh ... as well. I do some jaw-
Bree Allred: Okay ...
Tera Lensegrav Benson : or forehead tension work as, as well. So- Yeah,
Bree Allred: that's when [00:34:20] we're like, "
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Hello
Bree Allred: here."
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, people will be tensing their forehead and jaw and have no [00:34:25] awareness of it. Mm-hmm. Right? But you can like see someone and know they're [00:34:30] anxious.
Bree Allred: Yeah There's just patterns- Mm-hmm ... you do. And it's like you can see somebody, [00:34:35] too. Often we may not recognize it in yourself, but it's like, oh wow, they've got- Moving their shoulders
to- they've got
Tera Lensegrav Benson : something
Bree Allred: [00:34:40] going on.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. Yeah. I do mainly telehealth, and I can kind of tell the emotional mood a lot of [00:34:45] times by, like, the shoulder positioning. It's like, "You had a rough week. Let's talk about
Bree Allred: it." [00:34:50] And they're like, "How did you know?" Your
Tera Lensegrav Benson : shoulders
Bree Allred: are telling on you. Yeah. So it's just very [00:34:55] interesting that we...
Do you think we as women have gotten really good at ignoring things and just pushing [00:35:00] through?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Absolutely, right? Like, our culture has taught us, we've been rewarded for it, right? [00:35:05] Like, I think a lot of times we assign our, like, worth and value to what we can produce, [00:35:10] and people pleasing- Yeah ... comes along for the ride oftentimes.
Like, we [00:35:15] wanna achieve and be good, um- And we're natural nurturers-
Bree Allred: Exactly ... which is that, like, giving- And [00:35:20] that's not a bad thing ... that, agreed, but when it comes at our own expense-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : But to a fault. Exactly ... that is the issue. Right. Like, what is the [00:35:25] cost?
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah.
Bree Allred: But I just think that's so intertwined there, of we give [00:35:30] constantly- Mm-hmm
and struggle receiving.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Exactly. Yeah. And har- it's hard to give up [00:35:35] control as well. Like, it's hard to, like, delegate and allow others to do things for us. Mm-hmm. Right?
Bree Allred: [00:35:40] Because we think it means less of ourselves.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Exactly.
Bree Allred: Because- It's kind of weird ... you know, I don't need anyone else.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. Yeah.
Bree Allred: [00:35:45] Let's talk a little bit more about maybe some of the physical changes- Mm-hmm
that a woman may see during perimenopause. Yeah. [00:35:50] Specifically around body image and intimacy. Mm-hmm. And then how that may affect the [00:35:55] relationship with a spouse or- Yeah ... someone close to you.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Well, and I think, like, that this is where [00:36:00] it's really important to not live in a vacuum with your symptoms, right?
Like, to be [00:36:05] willing to talk about them, even if they're embarrassing. It's okay. Yeah. Like, we're all going through this. [00:36:10] So as your body changes, right, like, some of these things are out of our control, and your body isn't a thing [00:36:15] to be controlled. We have to work on accepting that it will change over [00:36:20] time, and there are interventions and things we can do to make a sex life more [00:36:25] comfortable- Yeah
both from a psychological and a physical standpoint, too. Mm-hmm. So that mind-body [00:36:30] connection, I think, is really, like, where things felt easy and natural before, it takes more [00:36:35] forethought at times Yeah, yeah ... in this phase of life, and that's uncomfortable. And those are [00:36:40] conversations we have to normalize having with our partner, and oftentimes I have those conversations in therapy [00:36:45] to get ready to have them with a partner.
Yes, yes. Like, how can this feel less
Bree Allred: weird,
Tera Lensegrav Benson : [00:36:50] less awkward, right? Like, and it, it, it quickly gets better [00:36:55] once you can admit what you need. Yeah. Right? And I think, like, the willingness to take up space [00:37:00] and have needs in terms of, of shifts in body image, how we perceive [00:37:05] ourselves, and intimacy is so crucial, right?
And something a lot of women really [00:37:10] struggle with. Yeah.
Bree Allred: Because around this timeframe- Mm-hmm ... there is some weight gain- Yes ... that seems [00:37:15] unexplained. Yeah. We may be carrying a little bit more belly fat than we would normally, and that is [00:37:20] not considered beautiful.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Right.
Bree Allred: And, um-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And it seems to happen [00:37:25] overnight even though we haven't done anything different.
Bree Allred: Correct.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : So that's part of
Bree Allred: c- the panic It's a quick change, it [00:37:30] seems like.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah And it feels like we're aging overnight.
Bree Allred: Yes.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Right? Yeah. So like working [00:37:35] on what is my body? It's, it's here to help me live my best life. I don't [00:37:40] have to over control it 'cause when I do, it doesn't work anyway, right? Yeah. So how [00:37:45] can we kind of make peace with our bodies?
We don't have to love it all the time, right? Yeah. Like all of us have [00:37:50] bad body images, and that's okay. It doesn't mean we need to beat it up or, [00:37:55] um, really demean ourselves because our body's changing. But I do think it's so baked into our [00:38:00] culture- Yeah ... that we have to like pursue that thin ideal, that it's [00:38:05] really
It's a, it ... That I think is one of the biggest transition points- Yeah ... in perimenopause of [00:38:10] like letting go of how much that mattered, and maybe bringing [00:38:15] awareness to like how much that- attractiveness is [00:38:20] valued in our society. Yeah. And do we wanna be a part of that anymore? Mm-hmm. Right? Like, we c- we have the [00:38:25] opportunity to really look at ourselves and our values and say, "This is something I'm [00:38:30] not buying into anymore."
Right? Like, it, it was sort of easy and when [00:38:35] you're younger you don't have to think about it as much.
Bree Allred: Because you're young and beautiful already.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah, exactly. [00:38:40]
Bree Allred: And we are, and we're wise- We are in our own way ... and beautiful in our
Tera Lensegrav Benson : own ways. Like, [00:38:45] it's okay. Yeah. It's okay for it to evolve.
Bree Allred: Yeah. That's so true.
[00:38:50] And then that can affect d- how we show up- Relationships ... in a relationship. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Right? Like, do [00:38:55] we still feel attractive and how do we work through that? What's our own piece of that and what's [00:39:00] our piece to work through with a partner, too?
Bree Allred: Uh-huh.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And I think that's honestly [00:39:05] a lot of what we talk about in therapy with- Yeah
Bree Allred: this group of, of people. Yeah. Is [00:39:10] that accepting? Doing this- Yes ... this new me, this-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. Right ... this aging me. Like, can you, [00:39:15] like, try to let go and not be so tense, right? Like, when, when the topic of [00:39:20] intimacy on the table or literally in the bedroom, right? Like, it's... You have to get to know [00:39:25] your body. Mm-hmm.
And it's okay for that to be awkward and, like, [00:39:30] it, it's okay for it to be fun, too, right? Can you be curious about it? Can you make it fun with your [00:39:35] partner?
Bree Allred: Yeah. Yeah. And then as we talk about changes that may happen with perimenopause as well and hormone [00:39:40] changes-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Mm-hmm ...
Bree Allred: intimacy can become painful.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yes.
Bree Allred: And intimacy is an important part of a relationship. [00:39:45] Mm-hmm. And so now all of a sudden when that becomes a little more rocky-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Mm-hmm ...
Bree Allred: it can feed out into the relationship a little bit [00:39:50] differently. Absolutely. So, vaginal dryness is very often, people will feel like tissues aren't [00:39:55] stretching as well.
Mm-hmm. Um, they'll feel that it's... And, like, estrogen is [00:40:00] a, an elasticizer in our body. It's a- Mm-hmm ... it allows stretch and it allows recoil. And so when [00:40:05] that estrogen drops, things do not stretch as well or recoil as well. And your
Tera Lensegrav Benson : body doesn't [00:40:10] respond- Yeah ... in the same way as it always has with intimacy.
Yes.
Bree Allred: So it may be a whole new, it's [00:40:15] like, "Yes, I need to learn myself again." Yeah. And maybe we do need to add some [00:40:20] helps for the lack of moisture. Absolutely. And there are supplements and there are lubrications- Yes ... and not all are [00:40:25] created equal. And- Yeah ... kind of navigating that space of, oh, okay, how can I [00:40:30] help my body to be able to support these membranes and these mucosal linings and- Right[00:40:35]
like, even dry eyes, dry mouth. Yes. Like, they're also- Dry eyes
Tera Lensegrav Benson : are one of the first symptoms I
Bree Allred: noticed. [00:40:40] Yes. Yes.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah.
Bree Allred: To where it's like they're just not quite the same and there's- Yeah ... so many things that, that [00:40:45] can help us along these, whether it's HRT, whether it's- Mm-hmm ... a supplement, whether it's a- [00:40:50] lubrication, whether it's a vaginal moisturizer.
Like, there's things out there that can help- Yeah ... and significantly [00:40:55] change these.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And I think this is something we need to be talking to the younger generation- Yes ... about so they're, it's not like this big [00:41:00] surprise your body's broken. Yeah. It's not. It's happening, it ha- it happens as a part of [00:41:05] perimenopause and men- menopause.
Yeah. And there are things we can do about it. Yeah.
Bree Allred: And there's so many sides, [00:41:10] things from a physical side of things as well- Mm-hmm ... when we're looking at muscle tension. Yes. This area of our bodies, the [00:41:15] pelvic floor muscles, can become tense. Mm-hmm. Especially in response to a painful experience. [00:41:20] That pain.
Do you know? And then sometimes those will cycle, so physical therapy can be another resource during this timeframe [00:41:25] as well. And I know there's, do you know any sex therapists that- Yes ... some of their focus is, [00:41:30] do you know what I mean, learning conversations- Absolutely ... exploring, figuring out how to change this [00:41:35] relationship or explore this new relationship- Mm-hmm
as it may be going forward.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah, and it's nothing [00:41:40] to be ashamed of.
Bree Allred: Yeah. It's just part of the, the journey we [00:41:45] call life and it's- Yeah ... k- if we could really open up these discussions again and have some tools in the [00:41:50] toolbox-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Exactly ...
Bree Allred: that it's like, "Okay, we're ready. We've been prepped for this." Mm-hmm. "And we're [00:41:55] expecting it."
Tera Lensegrav Benson : It does not have to feel so intimidating- Yeah ... or shameful-
Bree Allred: Yes ... at all. Yep. [00:42:00] And then relationships may be able to weather those storms a little bit- Absolutely ... easier as well with the tools- Yeah ... in the toolbox. [00:42:05]
Tera Lensegrav Benson : I know, I think a lot of times people are scared to have conversations with their [00:42:10] partner, and the majority of the time, like, that I've worked with people on those conversations, [00:42:15] they've actually went really well.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : It is vulnerable though, so I wanna validate that.
Bree Allred: Yes, it is [00:42:20] hard to have. Yeah. And it's hard on both sides, but most of the time both are just wanting [00:42:25] to have the conversation.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yes, absolutely. Yeah,
Bree Allred: and support each other through it. Mm-hmm. And, [00:42:30] you know, strengthen the relationship through it- Mm-hmm
and come out the other side with a whole [00:42:35] new experience- Right ... of what this can look like.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. It can actually deepen the relationship.
Bree Allred: [00:42:40] Mm-hmm. Yeah. When we weather those hard times, don't it, we come out better on the other end [00:42:45] generally.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah.
Bree Allred: Like, we grow through hardship often. Mm-hmm. Let's imagine a listening, there's a woman [00:42:50] listening right now.
Mm-hmm. Like, yes, we're telling her that there are some expectations that we need [00:42:55] to be ready for during perimenopause, that often we're not going to feel like ourselves- Yes ... during [00:43:00] those phase, and that we're going to have to, you know, realize the season in [00:43:05] life and realize the growth that can come from it.
So how do we instill hope? Do you know what I mean? In [00:43:10] somebody listening, what's, what's the flip side of that coin? We've talked about some of them, but- Mm-hmm ... do you know what I... If [00:43:15] we're leaving them with like, okay, what, what's the next phase? Like, how do I get through [00:43:20] this? What does it look like on the other side?
Mm-hmm Maybe where should [00:43:25] I start?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Right.
Bree Allred: Right, giving them a little bit of a, a preparatory roadmap.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : [00:43:30] Yes. Well, I think you don't have to solve it all at once.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : You're not alone in it. [00:43:35] Don't be afraid to talk to y- you know, the people in your circle. Gather your village, whether, [00:43:40] you know, on- online communities can be really helpful- Mm-hmm
for this too. Um, s- in [00:43:45] case you don't have friends or a group of people you feel like you can talk to about this. [00:43:50] So don't do it alone. You don't have to. There's a lot of interventions out there, both on the [00:43:55] medical and psychological side, to help support the transition, so it's, the suffering is, i- [00:44:00] is, like, reduced.
I won't say it's, it, it- Yeah ... we can completely take [00:44:05] it away, right? Yeah. But it's more about, like, coping well through it and coming out the other side [00:44:10] thriving than, like, suffering through getting no intervention and just feeling, [00:44:15] like, lower than a snake's
Bree Allred: belly, right? Like- Yeah ...
Tera Lensegrav Benson : it doesn't have to be like that.
[00:44:20] And in therapy we w- we work on kind of getting curious around, like, okay, what are the contributing factors? What can [00:44:25] be solved? What do we sh- tackle first? So it's not like we have to fix it all at once.
Bree Allred: Yeah. [00:44:30]
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Right. Like, it's gonna be approximately a 10-year process. [00:44:35] So
Bree Allred: we don't have to fix it all overnight.
Yeah. Right? Like, and you're not alone
Tera Lensegrav Benson : in this. [00:44:40]
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And there are good, you know, both on the me- m- the Menopause Society [00:44:45] providers, right? Like, they're good, medically trained people. There's a lot of bad ones, so don't [00:44:50] get discouraged if you get someone who doesn't, um, align with where you see [00:44:55] your needs. So keep searching for the right people.
Yeah. 'Cause we are out there. [00:45:00] We might be hard to find, but.
Bree Allred: Yes, yes. How would you say somebody would go about finding, [00:45:05] d- a provider like you who's maybe more specialized or more trained- Mm-hmm ... to [00:45:10] help someone through this phase of life?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. Well, I think there are a few [00:45:15] directories. So the menopausesociety.org is mostly f- focused on medical professionals.[00:45:20]
Mary Claire Haver, also Unpaused, has another directory mostly [00:45:25] focused on medical. Mental health, it's more, like, going back to the Google. I practice in [00:45:30] 43 states. I do individual and group therapy, so I'm an option for a lot of [00:45:35] women throughout the country. Um, but it really is, like, finding the right provider, and [00:45:40] even if you find a therapist you could, that you like, you could also say, like, "Do you do this [00:45:45] work?"
Mm-hmm. "If not, who do you recommend?" Yeah. Right? So I do think it will be a growing niche as- [00:45:50]
Bree Allred: Yeah ...
Tera Lensegrav Benson : perimenopause gets more attention. Mm-hmm. Thankfully it is, but as [00:45:55] of now, there are not that many of us, unfortunately. Yeah.
Bree Allred: Who are specializing and [00:46:00] just have that extra knowledge of- Exactly ... of what-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah
Bree Allred: what to do with, but starting with someone who [00:46:05] has some knowledge of helping anxiety, depression- Exactly. That's a
Tera Lensegrav Benson : great place,
Bree Allred: right? Do- maybe looking for [00:46:10] the biofeedback or neuromodu- is it neuromodulation?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Uh, neurofeedback.
Bree Allred: Neurofeedback- Yeah ... that you're kind of working with. [00:46:15] Um, maybe could be some good places to start.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah, that's a good starting point. Yeah. Definitely.
Bree Allred: And [00:46:20] then if you're struggling with physical symptoms, I do recommend, again, finding a medical provider. [00:46:25] Mm-hmm. Um, everybody, this is one where they're still learning a lot. Mm-hmm. So it [00:46:30] is a changing, a ch- ever-changing field and ever- Yeah ... growing. [00:46:35] We're still learning what it looks like, what's optimal, what's not optimal, um- Things are getting debunked
what's [00:46:40] necessary, what's not.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Right? Yeah. Like the Women's Health Study recommendations- Yes ... are getting debunked [00:46:45] that put a black box warning on
Bree Allred: estrogen. Yes, exactly. So
Tera Lensegrav Benson : a lot of, uh... There, [00:46:50] there's a big learning curve happening right now, and I'm so glad it is, but [00:46:55] I'm kind of sad that it didn't happen earlier.
Bree Allred: Agreed. But luckily we're here. Mm-hmm. Right? And it [00:47:00] can only get better. And I al- do say that it's like from psychology, from physical [00:47:05] therapy, from medicine-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Mm-hmm ...
Bree Allred: if you're not finding a provider that's meeting the needs-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Move on ...
Bree Allred: it's [00:47:10] okay. Go find another one. Yes. 'Cause not all providers are, unfortunately, created equal.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah.
Bree Allred: [00:47:15] And some fit for your- your needs and [00:47:20] some fit for another, right?
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Absolutely.
Bree Allred: And it's, it's just there's lots of theories out [00:47:25] there. We're having several different menopause related providers, and looking at [00:47:30] their unique ways that they will address it, and kinda just seeing like, hey, that might [00:47:35] align more with, do you know what I mean?
Yes. What I think I need- Yeah ... versus I might align more with this camp [00:47:40] of treatment- Absolutely ... and seeing what works well. And sometimes you're working with multiple providers at once. Yep. [00:47:45] And- And that's collaborative care,
Tera Lensegrav Benson : right? Yes. Like- Yes ... that's okay.
Bree Allred: But keep looking. [00:47:50] Hope is there.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Mm-hmm.
Bree Allred: You may not feel like yourself anymore, but on the other [00:47:55] side- There are some new things
is a new and a better you. Yeah.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Yeah. It will definitely [00:48:00] even out. We've been told by the research, I'm not there yet, but I, I have hope that it, [00:48:05] the transition, right? Like, it is a remodeling time for our brain.
Bree Allred: Mm-hmm.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : And [00:48:10] basically, like once the remodel is done and we're through that, that things [00:48:15] will get more stable, even manageable.
Bree Allred: Yes. [00:48:20] There's a, a book and I've pulled, do you know what I mean? Kinda just from some ancient with the, Indian [00:48:25] wisdom. When you start menstruating, it, that you meet, do you know what I mean? Some of your wisdom.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : [00:48:30] Mm-hmm.
Bree Allred: And then as you are going through motherhood and perimenopause, that you're [00:48:35] practicing it, and then once you've hit m- menopause, that you have met it.
Do you know, that you [00:48:40] have met your wisdom. And I just think that that's a really unique perspective on it. Yeah. That as we look at these [00:48:45] transition phases of life as more we're practicing- Mm-hmm ... do you know what I mean, to become [00:48:50] this wisdom that we gain on the other end of it- Yeah. Yes ... can be really neat
Tera Lensegrav Benson : to look at that.
Absolutely. It's like [00:48:55] identity formation- Yeah ... on another level. Yeah. Like, we get to define what the next phase looks like [00:49:00] for us.
Bree Allred: So it's gonna be really empowering. Mm-hmm. Um, [00:49:05] everything hard leads to something better. Mm-hmm. I 100% believe that, that, [00:49:10] um, we grow the most during hard seasons. Mm-hmm. And I think this sometimes can be a hard season, [00:49:15] and we're getting better at navigating it and having some tour guides to help us through it, [00:49:20] and I hope that we can all, do you know what I mean, just rally together- Yes
help normalize some of [00:49:25] this- Yes ... a bit, because we're all going through it. None of us really have our act [00:49:30] together- Yeah ... all the way. Again, we're paddling like crazy underneath- Mm-hmm ... and we're just looking for [00:49:35] somebody to connect with-
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Absolutely ...
Bree Allred: and to notice sometimes. And sometimes that [00:49:40] noticing means actually noticing ourselves and being willing to speak up and get the help that we need.[00:49:45]
So well, thank you for being here today.
Tera Lensegrav Benson : Happy
Bree Allred: to. And hopefully this conversation was helpful [00:49:50] from a mental health side of things. Um, it's so unique to just see how [00:49:55] connected our brain and our body are, and how changes in one can affect the other- Absolutely ... both from the [00:50:00] mental side and the physical side.
All right. Thanks for tuning in to Healing at Your Corp. We will [00:50:05] have Tera's information in the show notes if you'd like to connect with her, and we look [00:50:10] forward to continuing to heal you at your corp.
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