[00:00:25] Welcome to Healing at Your Core. Today, we are going to continue with our [00:00:30] breast cancer series and talk a little bit more about final steps of [00:00:35] recovery and maybe some restoration of wholeness just a little bit. So we are talking [00:00:40] about areola restoration after breast cancer surgery. So I have Kalei [00:00:45] Mumford with me, who is a tattoo artist that specializes in areo- [00:00:50] areola restoration.
Bree Allred: Um, so Kalei, tell us a little bit about you. What's your [00:00:55] story into kind of this area of work? And, um, [00:01:00] just give us some background about that.
Calais Mumford: Okay. Well, I started, [00:01:05] um, microblading. That's how I kind of got into [00:01:10] permanent makeup and tattooing. I started that in 2017, and, um[00:01:15]
Once I kind of got the hang of that, I [00:01:20] started looking into adding more services, and one of the services that really stood out [00:01:25] to me was the areola restoration. And I had seen just a couple other artists [00:01:30] throughout the country and even in other countries that were offering it, [00:01:35] and I just thought it was really cool, something that was just super [00:01:40] amazing and you just don't see a lot of.
Um, [00:01:45] and so I just kind of... I, like, I saw it and I thought it was amazing, but I wasn't sure if [00:01:50] I would actually be able to do it 'cause I'm not, um, [00:01:55] like your typical artistic person. So I [00:02:00] wasn't sure if it was something that I would be able to do. But, um-
Bree Allred: You feel like you're, we're like a standard [00:02:05] tattoo artist.
Yeah. You could be like, "Oh, I'm really good at art and I'm gonna try to make a living doing it this day." Yeah,
Calais Mumford: [00:02:10] exactly. So, um-
Bree Allred: You're like, "I'm really good at making people look beautiful [00:02:15] with my makeup" and-
Calais Mumford: But I've like, I, I've found that I, I do [00:02:20] have kind of a niche for, like, adding on to natural beauty. So, like, with [00:02:25] eyebrows and stuff, it's, I mean, it's a lot of practice, but I've gotten to a point where it's like, [00:02:30] all right, I understand how to do this now and it makes sense.
And so [00:02:35] I had it in the back of my mind to do the areola restoration, but it wasn't [00:02:40] something I was, like, super confident about doing. Um, [00:02:45] but then I had a friend who was diagnosed with [00:02:50] breast cancer, and I think it was around 2020. [00:02:55] And with the lull of everything, I was like, all right, I'm gonna [00:03:00] do an online course and just see how it goes.
And so I took my first online course [00:03:05] for areola restoration, and I just loved it. I thought it was amazing. So [00:03:10] then I think in 2023 is when I actually [00:03:15] went to Texas for a training and, um, [00:03:20] did some hands-on learning, and that's when it all just kind of came together [00:03:25] and yeah. So Um, [00:03:30] I do have, like, a medical background.
I have, uh, some experience with [00:03:35] skin and dermatology and stuff, and so I was always kind of intrigued by the medical [00:03:40] aspect, and I had no idea there was such thing as, like, medical tattooing. [00:03:45] And anyway, so with my medical background and [00:03:50] then just seeing this and being so excited that there was [00:03:55] something kind of in that realm just-
Bree Allred: Combine both of
Calais Mumford: your- It, [00:04:00] yeah, it just really made me super excited about it and just something that I felt like I really [00:04:05] should, I should do.
Bree Allred: That's amazing. Uh, tell me more about kind of the [00:04:10] training process. Is it just so you would do these kind of courses and you learn how to do it? How long has it [00:04:15] taken you to feel comfortable doing it?
Calais Mumford: So that's, like, the [00:04:20] kind of the scary area with tattooing in general. It's actually, it's not regulated [00:04:25] in a lot of states, so anyone can actually tattoo.
Um, [00:04:30] with courses, it just depends on who you're taking a course from and where, [00:04:35] and their training and how they offer their courses. So I have taken one-day [00:04:40] courses, and then I've taken several-day courses. I've taken courses where the one that I took [00:04:45] in Texas, um, it was a few days of [00:04:50] hands-on learning, and then you went home, you practice, you submitted, [00:04:55] um, uh, your practice materials and that sort of thing.
Uh, [00:05:00] but I can say with all of my experience with, [00:05:05] uh, microblading and then switching over to machine work, so more like tattoo work, I've had [00:05:10] a lot of experience. I know what I'm doing with a machine and different needles, um, [00:05:15] so it was easier for me to kind of apply certain techniques and stuff [00:05:20] into the areola work.
And, um, [00:05:25] so training, like, your actual training certificate might be a few days, but I feel [00:05:30] like it's been, you know, it's like years coming.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Calais Mumford: You know?
Bree Allred: Lots of that kind of stuff- Yeah ... [00:05:35] that you've been practicing- Yeah ... and working and getting comfortable with.
Calais Mumford: Yep. Yep, it's always, [00:05:40] always process. Always...
I'm always learning, always trying new techniques, trying to figure out [00:05:45] what works best for me.
Bree Allred: Yeah. From the outside, someone may hear [00:05:50] areola tattooing and really have a different mindset behind what that is. [00:05:55] Tell me about the emotional impact that you've seen this [00:06:00] have with a breast cancer survivor.
Calais Mumford: Um, a lot [00:06:05] of my clients come a little bit wary of [00:06:10] The whole procedure in general, um, [00:06:15] they've gone through a lot, and you know this.
They've gone through a lot with the, [00:06:20] um, treatments, you know, m- mastectomy, whether it's [00:06:25] bilateral or unilateral, whether they do radiation, chemo. Sometimes they [00:06:30] don't, sometimes they do. Sometimes it's an oral medication. There's so many different [00:06:35] things that they've done prior to seeing me, right? And then they have [00:06:40] to go through the reconstruction process if that's what they choose.
Um, [00:06:45] and it's kind of intimidating because you are in such a vulnerable [00:06:50] position, and this is such a vulnerable part of you, um, [00:06:55] that you're getting back. And so I think a lot of the time they are, they are nervous, [00:07:00] they are a little bit worried because they don't know what to expect. They haven't had it done [00:07:05] before.
Um, so the beauty of it [00:07:10] is that if they have a [00:07:15] bilateral mastectomy, and so they're, they've had both sides removed, [00:07:20] it's kind of a blank canvas. We can kinda do whatever we want, which [00:07:25] is fun, and sometimes my clients really love it because then we get to pick and [00:07:30] choose size, shape, color, that sort of thing, location, where they are.[00:07:35]
Um, and even with unilateral, it's fun [00:07:40] too because then I get to match, and that's where, um- Some [00:07:45] different challenge for you Yeah, it's a definitely a challenge, for sure, 'cause then I get to be like, "All right, we have this [00:07:50] native areola. Now we gotta try and mimic it on this side and make it [00:07:55] look as natural as possible."
It's a tattoo. It's not going to look 100% [00:08:00] the same, but, um, the confidence [00:08:05] that it brings to somebody I think is something a lot of my [00:08:10] clients don't-- They haven't thought about that. They haven't thought about like, "Okay, this, this is gonna [00:08:15] boost my confidence so much." They're kinda like, "Oh, I'm good with o- with or [00:08:20] without, so I'm just gonna get it done."
And then they're like, "Holy cow," like, "I actually feel [00:08:25] like a whole person again, like a woman." Um, [00:08:30] where they might have thought before, "I'm, you know, I'm fine. I'm fine with how my scars look and [00:08:35] how everything looks." But to, like, add that one finalized detail to, [00:08:40] like, create a whole body again in their [00:08:45] minds is huge.
Yeah. It's huge for somebody to look in the mirror and to be able to [00:08:50] feel like- They're back to where they were Again Yeah.
Bree Allred: Yeah. And that [00:08:55] was my experience. I didn't realize that it would be such a big deal. So, um, for [00:09:00] those that haven't watched earlier episodes, I am a breast cancer survivor. It's been almost 15 years since [00:09:05] my diagnosis in December.
It will be, um, 15 years, uh, since my [00:09:10] diagnosis. And I had a unilateral mastectomy at the time, wanted to have more babies [00:09:15] and saved the other side because it didn't have any cancer in it, um, for hopefully [00:09:20] breastfeeding future babies, which I did have two, which was such a miracle. Um, and then [00:09:25] after the fact, um, in 2023, I ended up doing a [00:09:30] prophylactic mastectomy on my side that I'd saved and then a [00:09:35] just a symmetry reconstruction on the other side.
Um, and one thing I remember after [00:09:40] my first surgery was looking down to it, like after they took off the bandages and I was [00:09:45] like, "Oh, my nipple is still here." Like it was just such a relief to see that it [00:09:50] was like, oh my gosh, it still looks like my boob. Like it's, it's still mine. [00:09:55] Um, and then with my second procedure, I actually did a reduction w- along with that breast [00:10:00] when I did the mastectomy.
And so they, as part of that, um, we determined that the [00:10:05] best thing to do would to be to kind of cut out the portion of the breast that had my nipple on it. So when I woke [00:10:10] up from surgery, granted I'm like I was removed from it a little differently from the whole [00:10:15] cancer experience at that point, but um, of the active cancer experience, [00:10:20] but looking down it was like, oh, like now it's, it looks different, right?
[00:10:25] It's not part of me. It's, it's one of those where I'm like, yes, I can tell something was done [00:10:30] here. Instead of just a scar from a surgery, it was like, oh, my body has been permanently [00:10:35] changed here because I didn't have the nipple. And just the difference in those two [00:10:40] experiences of like, oh, my nipple's still here.
Like even though there's nothing underneath it, it [00:10:45] still feels like it's mine versus like, oh, this is something foreign. This completely changed [00:10:50] my body. And then I was able to have, um, an areola [00:10:55] restoration performed on me and Chloe actually did mine. And um, it was just such [00:11:00] an amazing experience to like, oh, like all of a sudden it felt like my breast again.
[00:11:05] It felt like my body was restored and it gave me so much more confidence [00:11:10] to show up differently in my intimate relationship with my husband. It gave me the [00:11:15] confidence to show up, um, just differently looking at myself in the mirror when I [00:11:20] was out clothes and it just, it was incredible how having the, the [00:11:25] areola and the appearance of the nipple on that breast made it [00:11:30] feel like a breast, and how the breasts are so tied to [00:11:35] femininity- Yeah
and, and that part of us. And motherhood from a [00:11:40] nursing standpoint, like the breasts actually hold quite a bit of meaning in a [00:11:45] female world, I feel like.
Calais Mumford: For sure. That's, and that's like one reason [00:11:50] why I feel like this tattoo is so, it can be so powerful. [00:11:55]
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Calais Mumford: Even though most people don't see it, but it's [00:12:00] for you.
It's for yourself, and then- For your spouse [00:12:05] too
Bree Allred: Yeah ...
Calais Mumford: it's just, it can be just as meaningful to them
Bree Allred: Of that [00:12:10] healing and that like, "Oh, my wife is whole again." Mm-hmm. And yeah.
Calais Mumford: Yeah. Just c- [00:12:15] because you have that relationship, and I have noticed that a lot with women who are [00:12:20] in very healthy relationships with their spouse, and [00:12:25] usually, you know, the husband is very supportive [00:12:30] of whatever decision their wife makes.
Um, but they [00:12:35] can see the change. Yeah. And then they are also like, "Wow, that's amazing," 'cause it, [00:12:40] I mean, it looks real, but also like, "Look at, look at my wife. Look at [00:12:45] how confident she is now."
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Calais Mumford: And-
Bree Allred: Look at how differently she's able to show up in her [00:12:50] own, in her own body and her own space.
Calais Mumford: Yeah. And
Bree Allred: that.
Yeah.
Calais Mumford: Yeah. So I love
Bree Allred: that. [00:12:55] So neat. And you had mentioned this one point in time that sometimes couples will come in together to [00:13:00] kind of discuss a little bit of like, "Hey, here's kinda what I want. Here's what he's thinking." Like, [00:13:05] and it can be a collaborative effort if, uh, if you choose it to be.
Calais Mumford: Yeah, and I love that.
I [00:13:10] actually really love getting a husband's perspective as long as the wife is okay with it. '[00:13:15]
Bree Allred: Cause it's still her body, and she's still in ownership of that. But it is sometimes [00:13:20] nice to be like, "I don't know, what do you think?" Yeah. Like, having that secondary opinion or some support that way. [00:13:25]
Calais Mumford: Yeah, and it's fun to like, like, you place the shape on there, and [00:13:30] it's fun to have, you know, the husband or, you know, the spouse [00:13:35] involved, and they can look and say, "Yeah, I think that's a good spot," or, "Maybe we [00:13:40] should move it," or, you know.
And there's, and I think, I think that means a lot [00:13:45] too, just having them involved in the process, and even if they don't have a say in it, I think it [00:13:50] is really powerful. It's almost like, you know, closing the end [00:13:55] of the chapter. Like, let's do this together- Yeah ... and we can close it together and [00:14:00] watch it close at the same time.
You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think that's also [00:14:05] really fun. Um, and a lot of men sometimes are like, "Oh, it's [00:14:10] just, it's a tattoo. It's just gonna be like a circle of ink and just some [00:14:15] color there." They don't understand, like, everything that goes into it to create the [00:14:20] realism.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Calais Mumford: And so I think they're also equally, like, amazed.[00:14:25]
It's like jaw-dropping. Yeah. It's like, "Ah." And then they're like, "That's what it looks like." Yeah. "That's great." [00:14:30] So it's kind of fun to like share that happy moment with more than just the [00:14:35] individual that has a-
Bree Allred: And to be a part of that, I think that's a lot of, and forgive me for putting [00:14:40] words in your mouth, but a lot of why you do what you do, what's so rewarding in that is you're like, "Oh my gosh, I see this, [00:14:45] and I see the change in people, and I see that it's so much more than just a tattoo."
Calais Mumford: Yeah. [00:14:50] Yeah. For, for sure. It's amazing.
Bree Allred: That goes deeper. Yeah. Yeah. [00:14:55] In restoring wholeness- Yeah ... a little bit for, to someone.
Calais Mumford: Yeah. It's pretty cool.
Bree Allred: That's
Calais Mumford: fun. [00:15:00]
Bree Allred: Okay. So for someone that's maybe never had a tattoo before, for someone [00:15:05] that is like going through this process and like, "Oh, is this right for me?"
Take them through kind of [00:15:10] what the process would look like.
Calais Mumford: Okay. So a lot of the time, [00:15:15] um, I do a consult prior to the initial [00:15:20] appointment. This is just something that I feel like a lot of [00:15:25] individuals need just to like kinda help calm learners, get to know me, kinda figure out [00:15:30] what to expect. Mm. So in the consult we talk about, you know, you're gonna be able to pick [00:15:35] the color and the, like we can place it how you want, the size, the shape, [00:15:40] everything.
Um, I, I do talk about, you know, their [00:15:45] reconstruction process, how long it's been. Um, it needs to be, you know, at least [00:15:50] six months that before or since their last surgery, [00:15:55] and they do need to get like a doctor's approval before we can go through with that. So we go [00:16:00] through like all that and the logistics that way.
When you come in for your actual [00:16:05] appointment, that's when the fun begins. Um, and [00:16:10] I try and keep my space just so welcoming and just kinda light. Like- [00:16:15] I don't want it to look like a doctor's office, 'cause sometimes I feel like that can make it a [00:16:20] little bit more intimidating. So I try and keep my space just kind of light and [00:16:25] fun, um, and private as well.
And [00:16:30] usually during the whole process, it's like, you know, we just chat. We have a good time. [00:16:35] So my biggest goal is to just kind of ease, ease the pressure and the [00:16:40] nerves and just, "Okay, let's just relax and let's just do it and have fun with it." [00:16:45] So, um, we always start with the mapping, and that [00:16:50] will just, it'll look different based off of if you have a native [00:16:55] areola or not.
Um, if you still have one on one side, then we match it with the [00:17:00] other side. So we try and make sure that they look symmetrical. Now, [00:17:05] with reconstruction, it's not always, your breasts aren't always gonna [00:17:10] look the same. And even naturally, your breasts don't look the same.
Bree Allred: [00:17:15] Um- We have such high expectations of it.
Sometimes where it's like, well, actually to begin with, [00:17:20] symmetrical either.
Calais Mumford: So my goal is to just make [00:17:25] it look symmetrical- Yeah ... or as symmetrical as possible. The [00:17:30] tissue's gonna move, the scar is gonna stretch the skin one way or another, and that's just the nature [00:17:35] of it, right? Um, so we do talk about, like I do talk about expectations that [00:17:40] way so then they're prepared for whatever I can or [00:17:45] can't do, you know?
But we get to draw the shape on, and then we pick out [00:17:50] the color, and this is kind of the fun part. And I lo- like, I love talking to my clients about [00:17:55] this because usually if they've had, um, a bilateral mastectomy, [00:18:00] I'm like, "Okay, do you know, like do you have pictures of your [00:18:05] old areolas, and do you want them to look like that?"
And most of the time [00:18:10] they're like, "No, I hated my old ones, and I want them to look prettier. I want them to [00:18:15] be smaller or bigger or darker or lighter," you know? [00:18:20] And, and so that's when it's kind of fun to be like, "All right, like, let's pull out all of [00:18:25] my colors and let's mix and match and create something that you're going to love."
Yeah. [00:18:30] And I think that's so fun to just, like, get their two cents and [00:18:35] figure out exactly what their expectations are.
Bree Allred: Do you have enough examples of people who are like, "I don't know [00:18:40] what I want"? Oh. To where they can set to your work and be like, "Something kind of like that."
Calais Mumford: [00:18:45] So, um, sometimes they will have pictures of their old [00:18:50] areolas, and we'll be able to look at them and I'll be able to look at the color and see.
[00:18:55] Um, I do have clients that are like, "They were so light, you could hardly even see them." And I'm like, "All right, [00:19:00] let's go a little bit darker." And I can kind of use colors based off of [00:19:05] experience. Like- Okay, like this person has really light skin, [00:19:10] so they're probably more suited for these more pink tones, or this one has more olive [00:19:15] skin, so maybe a little bit of the more brown, maybe a little bit of red in there, you know?
So [00:19:20] it's kind of fun because we can mix and match and create that way. [00:19:25] Um, but I do get clients that are like, "I don't know. I just want to, I want them to look pretty." And [00:19:30] then, um, and then that's where I get to kind of give my professional [00:19:35] opinion and, and we just talk about it, and we can do like color swatches, and I [00:19:40] can ship people a little bit of like what the color can look like.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Calais Mumford: Um, but [00:19:45] it's also within the technique too, um, as far as how you place the pigment [00:19:50] into the skin. And so that's like the last step obviously before, [00:19:55] you know, you had him, you have to actually tattoo it. Um, [00:20:00] I- most of my clients are not too scared about pain, but there is [00:20:05] usually that question, "Does it hurt?"
Um, normally [00:20:10] tattoos, yes, do hurt. That's just y- you're putting needles into the skin. That's just the [00:20:15] nature of it. Um, and we've talked about this in the past, but a lot [00:20:20] of women have radiating pain or nerve damage. [00:20:25] So, um Whether they've had like a flap [00:20:30] done or, um, implants or there's [00:20:35] like so many different ways that, uh, surgeons can reconstruct the breast [00:20:40] tissue.
But usually there is a loss of feeling directly [00:20:45] on where the breast is now. And so there's not [00:20:50] usually a ton of pain involved, but I do use numbing, topical numbing, and that helps, [00:20:55] um, quite a bit. I don't usually use it initially. I'll just like do a [00:21:00] quick break open of the skin, and then I put this topical numbing on, and then after like a minute or [00:21:05] two, they can't feel a thing.
And it's amazing. Everybody loves it. But I have had [00:21:10] people in the past where I started tattooing and they're like, "Oh, I can feel it like over [00:21:15] here," or, you know, in a different location, which is always super interesting to me- ... [00:21:20] 'cause I'm like, "Hmm, I wonder where these nerves went." You know?
Bree Allred: From the right they [00:21:25] reach then.
How did they come from or go from
Calais Mumford: here to there, you know? [00:21:30] So it's always interesting. But there is very, very minimal pain. And [00:21:35] usually when I say pain, it's more like a light scratching. It's really not [00:21:40] painful like if you were to get a whole tattoo on your arm, like a sleeve or something. [00:21:45] Yeah. So I, that's what I always try to reassure my clients with is like, it's not [00:21:50] painful.
Um, you might feel it a tiny bit, but it shouldn't hurt. It should just be [00:21:55] like, "Oh, I can feel something."
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Calais Mumford: But it's not too bad. That
Bree Allred: was [00:22:00] my experience when I had it done as well. Yeah. There you go. Like one time that our surgery does work for [00:22:05] us- Yeah ... is sensation works for us. Yeah. To be that it's like, yes, I'm already a little bit dead.
[00:22:10] Yes. So most of that. Yeah. It's great. Um, what does the [00:22:15] long-term process look like for this? Like, um, do people have to get [00:22:20] touch-ups? Like what's the longevity of it?
Calais Mumford: So it is a tattoo, [00:22:25] and all tattoos fade over time. That's just the nature of them. And I [00:22:30] generally recommend a touch-up every like three to five-ish years.
[00:22:35] Um, or once you feel like it's faded to a point where you're maybe not as happy with [00:22:40] it as you were initially, and then you can come back for a touch-up. Um, [00:22:45] some clients are great for five plus years, and some are [00:22:50] like, "Hmm, I actually want them to be a little bit more vibrant." Um, so- [00:22:55] It, just because also of the skin and, [00:23:00] um, how again reconstruction was done.
If there's scar [00:23:05] tissue or if the skin was placed from a different location, like if [00:23:10] you have a flap from your back or something for your belly or [00:23:15] whatever, however they recreate, um, that breast, that's [00:23:20] also going to place a factor in how it heals. And I can't say, [00:23:25] "Oh, because this is from your belly, you're going to need to come, you know, in two years."
It's like, [00:23:30] just see how it heals because that skin changes over time, and if there [00:23:35] is more scar tissue, some people, they have scar tissue that holds hypopigment super well, and [00:23:40] others it's It, it fades faster. So [00:23:45] generally about three to five years is what I tell my, most of my clients, yep
Bree Allred: Yeah. And [00:23:50] there is different things where you may be working with...
So you do a 3D [00:23:55] areola tattoo- Mm ... which means on a flat surface you can make it look like it has, [00:24:00] like, a nipple and then the surrounding tissue. Yep. Uh, versus some people may [00:24:05] actually have a reconstructed, like, nipple mound- Yes ... that you're gonna be working with as well, right? So [00:24:10] tell us the differences a little bit in technique and that.
Calais Mumford: So if you don't know what a nipple mound [00:24:15] is, it's basically just scar tissue. So a surgeon [00:24:20] can go in, and I think a lot of the time they just do a local anesthetic after you've [00:24:25] had reconstruction, and they just basically create, like, a knot [00:24:30] in your skin essentially. Um, this is all [00:24:35] based on preference. I will talk to my clients about this.
"Have you thought about it? Is this something that [00:24:40] you want?" Because that will determine when we can do the tattoo. Um, [00:24:45] some people are like, "Nope, I don't want it," and others are like, "Hmm, actually that sounds like something I [00:24:50] would like." Um, some look really great and some [00:24:55] don't look as good. So it just kinda depends on the surgeon you go to and the [00:25:00] individual.
So, that's what a nipple mound is, and I [00:25:05] like working with a nipple mound sometimes 'cause I feel like it can create that, that [00:25:10] real of more realism. Mm-hmm. You know, because there is usually a little [00:25:15] bump.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Calais Mumford: And in the case of a nipple mound, it's essentially the same [00:25:20] thing, but I'm tattooing over it, uh, as well 'cause it usually does not have color.[00:25:25]
Um, so I tattoo over it as well and then add a little bit more color. I don't usually have to [00:25:30] do quite as much definition to create the illusion of a nipple. Mm. [00:25:35] Uh, but I still have to do a little bit of tattooing to get it [00:25:40] to look real.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Calais Mumford: Um, and then with just the straight 3D [00:25:45] over flat skin, um, that's just, [00:25:50] it's really fun.
I, I do, I create the illusion of a [00:25:55] nipple using, you know, shadowing and highlights and [00:26:00] that sort of thing. So when you're looking at it, it looks like it is standing [00:26:05] out instead of just a flat- It's super seamless ... yeah. And-
Bree Allred: And sometimes looking at some [00:26:10] of your work, like on your Instagram account, um, you'll take like a Q-tip and it's like, oh my gosh, [00:26:15] like how flat, but it looks like there's, looks like, like a mound or, or that it's 3D.
Calais Mumford: And [00:26:20] that's, I think that's what shocks people the most is like, oh wait, that, [00:26:25] that is flat.
Bree Allred: It is flat. Like how is this possible? It's flat.
Calais Mumford: And I think that [00:26:30] shocks my clients too because they're not quite expecting... I think a lot of people have like [00:26:35] lower expectations than what they're really getting. And so that's always kind of fun to be [00:26:40] like, look, like even though it's spot, it still looks like it's [00:26:45] not.
Bree Allred: Yeah.
Calais Mumford: And I think that's where it works a lot with the mind to trick the [00:26:50] mind into, look at this, like I'm whole, you know? And that's what I love [00:26:55] about it. Um, not all artists like do that as [00:27:00] a tattoo. I know there's some that like they just go get a color, [00:27:05] a circle, and that's kind of it And now everybody, every artist who [00:27:10] creates areolas does it differently.
Like I have my technique that I've worked with [00:27:15] and, you know, somebody else may have a different technique. So it just kinda [00:27:20] depends on who you go to as far as like the look you're, you're going [00:27:25] to get. But-
Bree Allred: So make sure that you've looked at the artist's work before you're- [00:27:30] Yeah ... seeing if it matches what you're envisioning for your own body.
Calais Mumford: Yeah. Yeah, I [00:27:35] always think it, that's important. It's like going and getting your hair done, you wanna go to somebody that you [00:27:40] like and does a good job, right? And you like their style. Same with like nails or [00:27:45] whatever, you know. You go to somebody because you like what their work looks like, and I think that's [00:27:50] just as important.
Even, you know, even a regular tattoo you do the same thing. [00:27:55] So shop around. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Bree Allred: Yeah. [00:28:00] Um, what is care like after getting the tattoo, for those that don't know?
Calais Mumford: Um, it's [00:28:05] actually really simple. Um, if you don't have any allergies and are, are not [00:28:10] sensitive to tape, I do put on what's called Tegaderm.
It's basically like a [00:28:15] really thin, almost like a Saran Wrap tape. We just place that over the area, [00:28:20] and then you leave that on for a week. And then after a week you take it off and [00:28:25] you rinse it with some water and then clean it with some gentle soap, [00:28:30] and then you let it air dry, and then you can moisturize it after that.
You're just not supposed [00:28:35] to soak in any like bathtubs or saunas or [00:28:40] hot tubs. You're not supposed to go swimming. No lakes, nothing like that while it's [00:28:45] healing. But then after that you're fine.
Bree Allred: So the healing time would be like two weeks, would you say? [00:28:50] It's
Calais Mumford: about, it's about a week.
Bree Allred: Okay.
Calais Mumford: Yeah. A week until you take that bandage [00:28:55] off, and once that bandage is off you're fine.
You're just like good to go. Yeah. Obviously you don't [00:29:00] wanna be going outside topless in the sun afterwards, especially... [00:29:05] I mean, I'm not gonna judge anyone, but- ... you gotta keep it protected. [00:29:10] As long as you can keep it protected and take care of that skin, it's gonna [00:29:15] last longer and it's gonna look fresh longer.
Uh, [00:29:20] but usually it's just a week and it's really super minimal care. [00:29:25] Biggest thing is just not to get it, not to get it wet. Now, [00:29:30] I have had clients who are sensitive to the tape, and that's [00:29:35] fine. Um, if that's the case then I do a little bit of a different aftercare where [00:29:40] you do cleanse it morning and night and then- Keep it protected with a [00:29:45] moisturizer.
And then if they can handle like a gauze or something, just so [00:29:50] it's not rubbing if you wear a bra, it's not rubbing on anything, or even a [00:29:55] T-shirt. Sometimes it's nice to just put a gauze and like the medical tape if you can handle that [00:30:00] on there. Um, if not, I usually just recommend trying to wear like loose clothing [00:30:05] so nothing's just rubbing the whole time.
But the [00:30:10] aftercare is so simple, it's pretty easy. Most of my clients don't have any [00:30:15] issues-
Bree Allred: Yeah ...
Calais Mumford: with healing.
Bree Allred: When would you say that people are gonna be able to see kind of what their final color is [00:30:20] looking like?
Calais Mumford: It takes about four weeks for the skin to settle down. Initially, when [00:30:25] you get it done, it's gonna be super red and angry, um, and it's just not gonna [00:30:30] look like how it-
Bree Allred: You're like, "Oh, that's dark."
Yeah. Or-
Calais Mumford: More red or... [00:30:35] Exactly. Um, so that's where I just have to remind my clients, you just need [00:30:40] to trust the process. It's gonna look a little bit scary at first. It's gonna get darker. It's [00:30:45] gonna be a little bit inflamed. But after about four weeks, that scar tissue has [00:30:50] settled down and you should be able to see how it's supposed to [00:30:55] look With that being said, I do have people come back for a six-week [00:31:00] perfecting touch-up, and that is just to make any final adjustments.
Um, [00:31:05] especially if I am working over scar tissue, I need to be able to look and see if I need [00:31:10] to adjust the color in certain areas. Or maybe you come back and you're like, [00:31:15] "I actually don't love this color. I want it to be a little bit darker," or, "I want a little bit [00:31:20] more detail here," or whatever. We can totally adjust that at the touch-up.
[00:31:25] But I always have them come back first after six weeks, we kind of go over everything [00:31:30] again or, or those areas that need, you know, tweaking and then, [00:31:35] and then they're good.
Bree Allred: Yes.
Calais Mumford: Yeah.
Bree Allred: It's good. Kind of a neat process to look [00:31:40] at, and it's like you're not always just like set with what you have. It's like you can tweak it, [00:31:45] you can get it to where somebody's happy with it.
Yeah. Just change it. And they do think, so you can [00:31:50] tattoo over scar tissue. I think that's one of the like misconceptions a lot of people have is that you can't tattoo over [00:31:55] scar tissue.
Calais Mumford: Yeah. I think, um, in standard tattooing, [00:32:00] some artists are a little bit more hesitant to tattoo over [00:32:05] scars, uh, because that tissue, that skin is so different [00:32:10] than the rest of the skin on the body.
Um, it's, it can be thicker, it can [00:32:15] be thinner, it can... It just has a different texture to it. [00:32:20] Um, but I... That's like part of the job. Like you have to be able to [00:32:25] tattoo over scars because a lot of the time you have a scar [00:32:30] somewhere on your breast that you are going to be touching in some way or another during [00:32:35] the tattoo process.
Some women don't, but a lot of them have, you know, scars either in [00:32:40] the middle or a little bit underneath. Some are up and down. Some have flaps where they [00:32:45] have like a circle in the middle, and so it's, it's just all [00:32:50] about, yeah, like figuring out how to place the pigment in that tissue versus [00:32:55] this tissue.
So you can totally tattoo over scar tissue and some- [00:33:00] sometimes actually tattooing over the tissue can help break the scar [00:33:05] tissue down a little bit so that scar can actually kinda almost [00:33:10] heal a little bit better. It's kinda like microneedling in a way-
Bree Allred: Mm-hmm ...
Calais Mumford: where it [00:33:15] can soften that scar tissue. So there are benefits to actually tattooing over scars, and [00:33:20] I, and I do that as well.
As part of your- As part of the areola, and not, not just [00:33:25] the areola, but yeah, as part of my work as med- as a medical tattoo artist is I can [00:33:30] tattoo over scars to help them blend in with the rest of the [00:33:35] tissue in the surrounding area. So
Bree Allred: That's neat. Kind of the other little [00:33:40] aspects that you could do.
Calais Mumford: Yeah, that's cool.
Bree Allred: So is there a particular experience [00:33:45] or reaction that you remember from one of your clients that you've worked with?
Calais Mumford: [00:33:50] So my first, um, Ariella client was my friend that I [00:33:55] talked to you about. She was kind of like ... And she never asked me like, [00:34:00] "Hey, you should get into this and do this," but that was kind of the push I [00:34:05] needed to like, all right, if I'm going to do this, now's the time.
So when she was [00:34:10] diagnosed, that was when I was like, all right, I'm going, like I want to be able to help [00:34:15] women like her. So she was my first client to do a [00:34:20] real reconstruction on. And she [00:34:25] was one that was like, "You know, I actually am really happy with how I look. [00:34:30] Like, I kind of have come to terms that this is how my body is now."
And [00:34:35] like, she just was okay with how she was. And which I think is great. I [00:34:40] think that's, like, huge mentally to, like, accept [00:34:45] your post-reconstruction, your body, you know, [00:34:50] that way. Um, so she didn't feel... She was like, "I don't feel like I need [00:34:55] this, but it is something that I've been interested in, so kind of let's just do it."[00:35:00]
And then once I was done, and she stood up and looked in the [00:35:05] mirror, she just kind of was like, "Holy cow. I did not realize [00:35:10] how much I actually needed this."
Bree Allred: That, like, mirror moment- Yeah ... where like you see the change happen. [00:35:15]
Calais Mumford: Yeah. Like, "Oh, my goodness. I didn't realize it was gonna make this big of a difference."
And [00:35:20] her husband was then too, and it was pretty cool because I felt like he [00:35:25] was kinda getting a little emotional about it as well. [00:35:30] And, that was just a really neat, like, kind of the moment of like, all right, I did all this [00:35:35] training, I did all this research to get here, and I... And not exercise, but [00:35:40] practice and like, um, all that to get to this [00:35:45] moment, and even if I just tattooed the 1%, like it was so worth it [00:35:50] just because of that reaction and how, how good she felt.[00:35:55]
And I think that's been my experience with a lot of other [00:36:00] women, is they kind of come in thinking, "You
Bree Allred: know, I don't really [00:36:05] need this, but this is something I would like." And then they get
Calais Mumford: it done, and they don't really realize [00:36:10] how much their mental health needed it. Yeah. You know? Like, "I really did [00:36:15] need this for myself."
And, and I've had that experience a couple [00:36:20] of times, probably more than that actually, where they just are like so [00:36:25] amazed. "This is amazing." I have another, um, client who I've [00:36:30] heard recently somebody else say to me that knows this, um, that you... [00:36:35] She's like, "She talks about her areolas all the time." [00:36:40] Like, she's just so happy with them, and it's been a couple of years since I've done it, and [00:36:45] she just, but she just loves it.
She just feels whole. And I, like, [00:36:50] that makes me so happy that, like, you know, even now she's like, "Man, I [00:36:55] really wish I would've done something like this sooner." And I, I don't know. I [00:37:00] just love those, those moments of like, you know, you can [00:37:05] see it, you can see that mental shift in their mind going like, "All right.
Bree Allred: Yeah." [00:37:10] This is a, um, like I'm whole again. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's that restoration [00:37:15] piece though. Like, okay, cancer has taken so much from me. Yeah. And all of a sudden [00:37:20] it's like I feel like me, I guess. Yeah. Like I feel whole, I feel restored, and [00:37:25] it's brought that back.
Calais Mumford: Yeah. Because this is technically a medical [00:37:30] procedure, it is covered by insurance.
So a lot of people, [00:37:35] um, are hesitant about the financial aspect of it, but [00:37:40] um, how it works is you pay me and then we submit that receipt to your insurance and then your [00:37:45] re- your insurance reimburses you. So it is covered as part [00:37:50] of your like whole medical plan, so you don't have to pay for it [00:37:55] necessarily out of pocket.
So there is that option and I think a lot of people don't realize that it is [00:38:00] part of the reconstruction- Mm ... process. So there's that.
Bree Allred: [00:38:05] What are some things that you wish every woman with breast cancer knew? Just you've worked with [00:38:10] this population. Yeah. You've gained some wisdom from these women that you've worked with, [00:38:15] and you also do have your own experiences.
I mean, Callisa's super big breast [00:38:20] cancer, um, awareness advocate, and you host a fundraiser every October for a local [00:38:25] breast cancer survivor that it benefits. And I just know this, like you're passionate about this [00:38:30] cause as well as the work that you do behind it, and I know that in that journey you've learned a [00:38:35] lot.
And so what wisdom would you pass along to these, you know, women [00:38:40] that are in the throes and, and in the thick of it?
Calais Mumford: Um, one thing I want [00:38:45] everyone to know is that their body is beautiful how- however it is and [00:38:50] however it ends up, you know? I think- One of the biggest [00:38:55] fears a lot of women have, and I would feel the same, I would feel the same way.
I would feel [00:39:00] the same way. Like, I haven't had breast cancer and I haven't had to go through reconstruction, [00:39:05] but my fear would be, how am I going to look at the end of this? [00:39:10] Because like you were saying, you know, our breasts are such a [00:39:15] feminine part of who we are, and taking that away [00:39:20] and then rebuilding is huge.
It's, like, such a long process. [00:39:25] It's not just, like, cut them off and then put some new ones back on, you know? [00:39:30] Um, so I think something I want, I would want people [00:39:35] to know is that, like, you are beautiful no matter what [00:39:40] route you choose, whether you do reconstruction or not, [00:39:45] and whether you do implants versus a flap.
Like, your, your body is beautiful the way it [00:39:50] is, and I think you need to be proud of how far it has [00:39:55] come. Um, sometimes I get women who do kind of [00:40:00] say, "Oh, like my body isn't blah, blah, blah. Like, it's not where I would want it to be," sort of thing. [00:40:05] And I have had to say a couple times, like, "Your body [00:40:10] has gone through so much, and it is amazing.
And look, you're still here, [00:40:15] and you're still doing life. Like, that's so awesome." [00:40:20] And I think sometimes we forget through our trials and hard times that we go through that we're, [00:40:25] like-[00:40:30] [00:40:35] [00:40:40] [00:40:45] [00:40:50]
We're going through something hard and things are gonna change. Um, I also think it is okay to not be totally satisfied with how you look, but being okay with just accepting it is, um, a hard part. So I think it's good, it's okay to be like, you know, "I just don't love this scar," or, "This was really hard," you know?
"I went through something really hard." And I think it's okay to [00:40:55] acknowledge that. Um, sometimes I feel like we put pressure on [00:41:00] women, we have to be perfect. It's like, "You went through breast cancer, why can't you just be [00:41:05] happy that you're still alive?" You know? It's like, no, you went through something hard.
You have [00:41:10] that to, like, acknowledge that you did something hard, and that's [00:41:15] okay too. Um, I also want people to know that there's options to [00:41:20] make yourself feel whole again. You know, tattooing isn't necessarily [00:41:25] for everyone. It can be a little intimidating. I think especially in [00:41:30] Utah, it's kind of taboo. "Oh my gosh, you got a tattoo."
Like, oh,
Bree Allred: that's [00:41:35] bad. But I have my own journey with that, that through the process of like, how do I feel [00:41:40] about this? How do I... Am I okay? Do you know what I mean? Doing something [00:41:45] unnatural to my body.
Calais Mumford: Yeah.
Bree Allred: Um, for me, and I, it's [00:41:50] everybody's own individual journey. For- Yeah ... for me, it came back to like, no, this is restoring what was [00:41:55] once lost.
And it's, it's a, a restorative place for me, and I feel good about it.
Calais Mumford: Yeah, [00:42:00] I mean, I look at it similarly to putting makeup on every day, you [00:42:05] know? It's like the same with, like, the eyebrows. Like, if you're filling in your eyebrows every day, why [00:42:10] not just have 'em on all the time, you know? Um, [00:42:15] it's also like reconstruction.
It, it could be the same thing, you know? Do I get [00:42:20] reconstruction or do I not? How do I feel about that? Um, but I want people, I [00:42:25] want women to know, especially in Cache Valley, there's nobody else here that offers [00:42:30] this specific tattoo, and I want people to know that it's [00:42:35] available and it's close. You don't have to travel two hours to go get it done, [00:42:40] and you don't have to go sit in a tattoo studio to get it done either.
Um, [00:42:45] and I think that's, that was another push why I wanted to offer it is because I felt like [00:42:50] women are gonna feel more comfortable coming to me versus a stranger. I mean, I am a [00:42:55] stranger, but let's be honest, by the time you leave, we're like best friends. Like,
Bree Allred: we are.
Calais Mumford: [00:43:00] Um, but I think it's important to just realize like that this is an option and you [00:43:05] can choose to have it done.
Um, you can choose not to and that's okay too. [00:43:10] Uh, but it is like I, I [00:43:15] have just felt so connected to these women and I don't know why. I don't know why exactly [00:43:20] I'm like so drawn to this particular service [00:43:25] and doing stuff for women with breast cancer who've gone through it. But [00:43:30] yeah, that's become kind of a big part of my life and being able to [00:43:35] share what I can do for people, um, both through [00:43:40] tattooing and also through fundraising has been really pretty amazing.
[00:43:45] And I don't know. I love it. I think it's- You change lives. Yeah. I think it's [00:43:50] pretty amazing. I'm not s- I'm not saving anybody's life through a tattoo, but [00:43:55] I do think I'm doing a lot by healing something when I do [00:44:00] it.
Bree Allred: I would agree with that. Yeah. It healed me in more ways than [00:44:05] one. So yes, thank you for what you do.
Oh, thank you. You're incredible. Thanks. [00:44:10]
Calais Mumford: Well, I hope this discussion was super helpful for everyone, and [00:44:15] knowing the options and some of...
Bree Allred: I hope this series during this October Breast Cancer [00:44:20] Awareness Month has been helpful in knowing the options and maybe the process or, [00:44:25] um, supporting those that you love because you understand options and things a little bit [00:44:30] differently along the way.
So thank you for allowing us to share this with you, and we [00:44:35] hope that this episode helped heal someone at their core, or that you can share this [00:44:40] information to allow for that healing to happen for someone else as well. Um, Colette, tell them [00:44:45] a little bit about where we can find you if anybody's interested in, in seeing
Calais Mumford: you.
So [00:44:50] I am on Instagram and Facebook. It's [00:44:55] sleeklinebeauty, um, all one word. Uh, you can find me there. [00:45:00] I'm pretty good at messaging and responding, so if you have any questions about any [00:45:05] of this, please send me a DM. You can also find me on my [00:45:10] website. It's sleeklinebrows.com. [00:45:15] And yeah, you can reach me there. I have a scheduling link [00:45:20] in both my Facebook and Instagram pages and of course on my website.
So [00:45:25] it's pretty easy to get ahold of me. You can also look me up on Google. I'm there too. [00:45:30]
Bree Allred: Great. Kind of all over the place. So you're like, wherever you wanna find her, you can, and we'll have [00:45:35] all those things in the show notes as well. Thanks again for joining us for this episode of Healing At Your Core, [00:45:40] and we hope that you found it beneficial
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